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Subject Topic: .38 S&W 38/200 Load Data? Post ReplyPost New Topic
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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 2:40pm | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

I will be getting an Enfield No.2 MkI revolver soon. Since a .38 S&W rounds isn't really considered a "fun" round to shoot I thought it would be fun to try and replicate the 38/200 round used by the British. The problem is finding load data for that round. I found some data but not really what I'm looking for. I have already found a source for 200gr .35 Caliber LRN bullets from the Western Bullet Co.

I have on hand:
W231 & HP-38
W296 & H110
HS-6
Longshot
Lil'Gun
(some) Powder Pistol
(some) AA#5

I guess you can see why I don't want to buy another powder. I only have some Powder Pistol and AA#5 on hand because of the load tests I was doing on Speer Short Barrel rounds and might no replace them. I would appreciate it if I could get load data using one of the Winchester/Hodgdon powders I already have. (especially W231)

Thanks in advance...

Edited by ArchAngelCD on December 05 2007 at 2:41pm
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WiskyT
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 5:03pm | IP Logged Quote WiskyT

I have an oooold Lyman book and it only goes up to 158 grain for the 38SW. Sorry.

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Paul5388
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 6:36pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

RCBS Cast Bullet Manual Number 1 has H-38 loaded in a 162 gr load, but doesn't list it for the 175 gr. Maybe because the Max load with the 162 gr is only 2.6 gr?

I did find one load here.
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Rod WMG
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 7:18pm | IP Logged Quote Rod WMG

It's interesting that the diameter for the .38 S&W is .260" and this one is a couple of thousandths shy. I haven't slugged my Webley yet, but I hope this one isn't too small.
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The_Shadow
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 7:27pm | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Found this on The Highroads Forum...the following notice appeared in the NRA Journal, Vol. XLIX, No.1 (Spring 1970)

From: The Director, Inspectorate of Armaments.

Cartridges. S.A. Ball. Revolver .380" Mark 2z

It should be noted that whilst the dimensions of cartridges of the above description are similar to those known commercially either as .38" S&W or as .38" Smith & Wesson Revolver and that they will chamber and fire in commercially made weapons their use in other than Service No.2 Revolvers is not recommended unless the weapons in which they are to be fired have been submitted to Special Definitive Proof in which event they will bear a marking in excess of "3½ tons" customarily found on weapons proved for .38" S.& W. Not only is the pressure generated by the Service .380" Mk 2z cartridge some 50% greater than that of the .38" S & W round but, because the bore size of the Service No.2 Revolver is greater than that found in pistols chambered for .38" S&W a considerable loss of velocity and accuracy may arise from its use in commercially produced weapons.

The High Rods 38 S&W 200gr link

Also the post over there provide some info about the british bore being larger than .357 and bullet of .360"- .361" were required.

Another link found
38-200 load discussion link

Hope this helps! Good luck!
Wade



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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 7:34pm | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

Rod WMG wrote:
It's interesting that the diameter for the .38 S&W is .260" and this one is a couple of thousandths shy. I haven't slugged my Webley yet, but I hope this one isn't too small.

I'm sure you meant .360" and yes, most of the bullets found today are about .002" shy of being optimal. I'm going to slug the barrel when I get it and if it is way off I'll have to use a different bullet. Western also makes 2 bullets specifically for .38 S&W rounds that are .360" but only weigh 145gr and 160gr but only the 160gr bullet has a diameter of .360".

Paul,
I did see those loads already but I really want to use a powder I already have and not have to buy another. I know many reloader like Unique powder and while I have nothing against it, I like the Winchester powders I'm already using. I would hate to have to buy a totally different powder for loading a small number of .38 S&W rounds.

I wonder why there is so little data available for the 38/200 round???
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The_Shadow
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 8:06pm | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

ArchAngelCD, it is possible to wrap sand paper around a drill bit and enlarge a mould to gain some extra diameter (aluminum would cut easier) if you try to pour your own. Or have special made custom mould made.

It also seems those were built to handle more chamber presure that the regular 38 S&W's.

Good luck!
Wade

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Rod WMG
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 9:58pm | IP Logged Quote Rod WMG

AACD, thanks for catching my "Duh!" AS noted elsewhere, my brain has turned to mush.

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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: December 05 2007 at 10:39pm | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

The_Shadow,
Thank you for that information! You would think since I spend most of my time over at The High Road I would have found that thread myself but I did miss it.
Thanks again...
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The_Shadow
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Posted: December 06 2007 at 7:43am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Your welcome ArchAngelCD, I want to return a favor so to speak and I was able to learn a little something in the process. That's an interesting gun.

Good luck!
Wade

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Rocky Raab
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Posted: December 06 2007 at 8:42am | IP Logged Quote Rocky Raab

I spent a few minutes (okay, an hour) Googling and mostly reading long threads. Finally found this post:

"This is what i load for my police positive in 38 s&w. Starline brass,wsp primer,2 grain reddot,200 grain round nose from western bullet co. seat bullet just barely back from edge of chamber,use a good crimp. This load chronys between 630 to 650 fps which is really close to brit specs.I have used this load for a while now with no brass or primer problems." On this forum http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=74&p=296949

Also in the thread is a load using W231, but it turned out to be excessive, splitting most of the guy's NEW Starline brass. I won't give that charge here, but you can read the thread yourself.

BTW, I googled "Webley 38/200 load" and got pages of stuff.

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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: December 06 2007 at 8:03pm | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

I think I'll start with a 2.1gr charge of W231 and work up from there. It's obvious I can't go up to 2.5gr from what I read on the link provided by Rocky Raab. (thank you) I just hope 2.1gr isn't too low but I will be very careful and check the barrel for a squib before I fire a second round. I'll Chrono some rounds and stop at 650 fps.

-Edit Spelling

Edited by ArchAngelCD on December 06 2007 at 8:11pm
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J Miller
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Posted: December 07 2007 at 6:44am | IP Logged Quote J Miller

ArchAngelCD,

Here is what I did some years back when I had a S&W Victory Model in 38 S&W.

In Lyman #45 (I think) they have loads that duplicate the American 146gr RN load.
I substituted a 147gr HB WC and used the same powder charge. The HW WC expanded nicely to fit the larger throats and bore and the accuracy was quite acceptable.

I know it's not the 38/200 load, but it is easy to put together for an easy shooting load.

If you want I'll dig out the powder charges. I think I can find some W231 charges too.

Joe
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Rocky Raab
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Posted: December 07 2007 at 8:36am | IP Logged Quote Rocky Raab

At the completely opposite end of the bullet spectrum, it would also be feasible to load cast bullets designed for the Makarov. Those from my RCBS mould drop at 95 grains and .363" diameter. Cast soft for the 38 S&W's mild pressures, they'd fit and function perfectly - and wouldn't stress the gun at all.

For a while, I had a cute little H&R break-top revolver in 38 S&W. I used it only as a prop in my cowboy action storekeeper costume, and never fired it. But if I still had it today, and dared to touch it off, I think that's exactly how I'd load for it. Very mild loads with soft lead lightweight bullets. Low on the foot per second scale, but high on the Fun Per Shot one!

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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: December 07 2007 at 8:53am | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

I appreciate all the information on light loads but I really did want to find data for the British Military load. Like I said, I did find data with Unique powder but I don't want to buy another powder for a round where I'll load only a hand full.

Actually, if I wanted a 146gr LRN round, Sportsman's Guide had 50 round box of Magtech for under $18. I just might do that for now and load up that Brass later.
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Rocky Raab
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Posted: December 07 2007 at 9:40am | IP Logged Quote Rocky Raab

Yup, understand that.

But it never hurts to have an alternate plan of action, does it? The Air Force taught me to have not only a second plan, but to have tertiary, backup, alternate, standby, emergency and even ohschitt plans!

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