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Subject Topic: Using Vitavourhi N110 in .357 Magnum Post ReplyPost New Topic
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bb_shot
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Posted: March 04 2008 at 5:12pm | IP Logged Quote bb_shot

I was looking in the Vitavouhri manual and they list a 158gr. XTP bullet over 16.3grs of N110 getting 1602fps (7.5" barrel). Has anybody gotten these results with N110?
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AzJoe
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Posted: March 04 2008 at 6:56pm | IP Logged Quote AzJoe

Welcome bb_shot! I believe Vitavouhri is the cross equivlent to H110. Great high velocity, hard to ignite ball powder.
Hard crimp needed for proper ignition. Night time shoot is a light show! This powder has a muzzle flash that can be felt.

Joe..........
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CBRick
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Posted: March 04 2008 at 7:59pm | IP Logged Quote CBRick

bb_shot, welcome to the forum.

Uh AzJoe, . . . actually I think you'll find Viht N-110 to be an extruded, single base powder as is the entire N-100 series of powders.

I've tested it a bit in the 357, but with heavy for caliber bullets near 200 grains, early testing looked good. I did extensive testing of N-110 in the 41 Mag revolver and it was the long range accuracy winner but not the velocity winner.

Rick
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paul105
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Posted: March 04 2008 at 8:13pm | IP Logged Quote paul105

VV N110 is closer to 2400 in burn rate/load levels than 110/296. As Rick said, it is a tubular/stick powder. One of the loading manuals (Hornady, I think) indicates it has significantly less flash/blast than conventional powders. The Vihtavuori Powder load data on the web is more aggressive than loads listed in Horn, Speer, etc. manuals. It is rather expensive compared to 2400, 4227, 110, 296. I had a "bridging" incident in a Dillon SDB -- still not sure how/why I caught it.

FWIW,

Paul
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davemuzz
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Posted: March 05 2008 at 3:28am | IP Logged Quote davemuzz

bb_shot, welcome to the forum.

I use nothing else but VV N-110 for my 357 loads and my 44 mag "heavy" hunting loads. The powder is extruded and I have no problems using it thru my Hornady LNL progressive press.

I find N-110 more consistent and much more accurate than H-110, and it's cleaner burning than either H-110 or 2400.

For my bowling pin loads from my 44 mag, I use VV N-350. Great "plinking" load for shooting lead bullets (cheap).

BTW, I load 14 grains of N-110 under 180 grain Hornady XTP's and shoot 'em from my Smith Mt. Light. (3.5" barrel) At 50 yards, with a 2 hand grip, I can hit the 12" plate 5 out of 7 times. (That's my average anyway).

Dave

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AzJoe
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Posted: March 05 2008 at 1:53pm | IP Logged Quote AzJoe

Well guys, thanks for straightening me out! Thats what I get for not checking my powder chart first. I have seen the error of my ways.

Joe.............

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davemuzz
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Posted: March 05 2008 at 2:24pm | IP Logged Quote davemuzz

BTW....for the 357 mag loads using N-110, the load book calls for using small rifle primers in the 357.

Dave

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45
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Posted: March 13 2008 at 6:01am | IP Logged Quote 45



Hi, bb_shot -- welcome to the forum,

I have been using the Vihtavuori powders for handguns for about 15 years, and now I do not use other powders, unless a buddy gives me some powder for which he no longer has any use {although that has become a very rare occurrence lately !}

N 110 is the only powder I have ever loaded in .357's, and I suppose I have never pushed the limits with it, loading 15.0 to 15.5 grains over a std. small rifle primer, and using the Oregon Trail/laser-cast 158 gr. SWC's -- that load is super accurate in my 6 inch S&W M-27

One caution, do not use any magnum primers with the Vihtavuori powders ! -- it will spike pressures, big time ! -- I did that once in a less than max. .45 Colt load for my Ruger Blackhawk -- and got a BIG surprise, lots more recoil than I expected, from a much stronger load -- that load was using a CCI # 350 LP Magnum primer after running out of the std. LP primers -- and using a 255 SWC from Oregon Trail over 15.5 or 16.0 gr. of N 105}

re the use of sm. rifle primers in the .357 with Vv. N110 -- I saw a recent {year 2007 ?} magazine article, probably in 'Handloader', which analyzed the difference in .357 magnum handloads using sm. pistol and sm. rifle primers -- the sm. rifle primers won out -- not for velocity, which was about the same on average, but for consistency, and a low SD, and a low extreme spread. I have just been following the Vihtavuori load manual data, which specifies a sm. rifle primer for years, even back in the '90's when a lot of folks were saying it was a misprint. So I have no first hand knowledge -- and I use std. pistol primers in most other handgun cartridge reloads, as has been specified in the Vihtavuori Load Manuals.

Vihtavuori N110 and the Vv. load data has worked so well in my .357's, I have never looked elsewhere for a powder or load data {although I do have a bunch of other load manuals and constantly compare loads -- and sometimes Vihtavuori seems more aggressive with a certain ctg., likely due to using the European 'CIP' pressure specs vs. the USA 'SAAMI' specs, -- with the USA SAAMI data sometimes being slightly lower, and maybe measured differently}

Don





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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: March 13 2008 at 7:30am | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

45,
Very good information.... thank you for sharing it and writing that extensive report.
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davemuzz
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Posted: March 13 2008 at 2:39pm | IP Logged Quote davemuzz

45,

For the 357 loads, I DO follow the Vihtavouri reloading book and use small rifle primers in my reloads. I've never hand any problems with that.

I will echo your comment on the magnum primers though. NEVER use magnum primers with VV powders!

Dave

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TC Shooter
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 10:33am | IP Logged Quote TC Shooter

I know this an older thread but I have just started using N-110 for the first time a few weeks ago mainly for a 10" 357 TC for now.

The VihtaVuori reloading guide that Sinclair gave me with the powder states small pistol in their 357 load data . This is listed as Edition 6 stating revisons after Reloading Guide 2006.

My initial results using N-110 with the Hornady 180 XTP resulted my best grouping ever with that bullet. The data I used was from the Hornady manual which listed a WSPM primer.

My initial results with the 158 XTP and Fed. match small pistol magnum was rather mediocre. Next time out I tried the 158 XTP with a small rifle primer and the results were much better but I think I had reduced the charge too much , thinking the rifle primer would cause higher pressure.

I will try the 158 XTP next time with a heavier charge and the rifle primers and see if I can better my best 296/H110 attempts with the same bullet.

I never would have thought to use rifle primes in a 357 if it were not for me ending up here on a Google search - thanks!
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STCM(SW)
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 11:58am | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

Welcome TC Shooter!
And glad you found what you needed.

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TC Shooter
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 12:29pm | IP Logged Quote TC Shooter

STCM(SW) wrote:
Welcome TC Shooter!
And glad you found what you needed.


Thank you for the welcome! I hope I can find a good load for the 158 XTP and N110. I might try some rifle primers in my N110 180 XTP load too.

Afterwards its on to the 44 Mag Smith 629 Classic. The 240 XTP has done well for me in the past with H110/296 , will be curious to see if N110 will produce even better results.

For now I am getting ready to head South for the week!
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davemuzz
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Posted: June 28 2008 at 2:04pm | IP Logged Quote davemuzz

TC,

As I mentioned before, I load nothing but N-110 for my 357 and my 44 magnums. I also shoot a Smith 629 DX Classic. I have found that my DX likes the Hornady 200 grain XTP over 24.4 grains of N-110. Now, my DX is scoped but it will put all six rounds in a 4" target at 100 yards. Of course, this is from a bench and the scope is set on 6X.

Today I was doing some groundhog hunting with my "newest" acquisition....a Model 29 Performance Center "American Pride" 44 Mag. I had the open sights on this one and was shooting the Hornady 180 grain XTP over 25 grains of N-110.

Well, I took one fat one at about 30 yards....but the next one was the best!!!! I hit this small one, who happen to stand up at my squeaker call...and he was about 100 yards!!!! That will put a smile on your face!! I had a chance to shoot a third one at about 40 yards.....but you can't get 'em all! A clean miss. But....I know where it lives!

Dave

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45
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Posted: June 30 2008 at 9:51am | IP Logged Quote 45

TC

possibly you viewed the Vv. 2006 load data for .357 Sig .., when you checked back just for primer info --

I say that since I have the 2006 load guide in front of me in paper hard copy, plus I am viewing my digital copy downloaded from Vv./Lapua -- and I believe we would all be very surprised should they have two different sets of data, both marked as '2006' and/or edition '#6'. Also, I have never seen anything but small rifle primers listed for the .357 Mag. and .357 Max. loads from Vihtavuori.

Both my paper 2006 load manual and my digial copy of the 2006 / #6 have the .357 Magnum as using small rifle and the same for .357 Max........the .357 Sig data, however, shows small pistol

The .357 Magnum data is on pages 50 and 51 of their 2006 Load manual

Use of the small rifle primers gives more consistent external ballistics -- certainly there is not any safety issue here, using sm. rifle or sm. pistol.

I would, however, stay away from any magnum primers with the Vv. powders. Any data derived using magnum primers is going to be giving up some velocity in order to stay within the SAAMI spec. safe pressures, less powder will be able to loaded if a magnum primer is used.

45



Edited by 45 on June 30 2008 at 10:05am
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TC Shooter
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Posted: July 06 2008 at 6:21pm | IP Logged Quote TC Shooter

45 wrote:
TC

possibly you viewed the Vv. 2006 load data for .357 Sig .., when you checked back just for primer info --

I say that since I have the 2006 load guide in front of me in paper hard copy, plus I am viewing my digital copy downloaded from Vv./Lapua --   


Sorry I did not respond to this sooner , just returned from vacation tonight. The guidebook Sinclair Int. gave me with the powder is listed as:

Reloading Guide
for Centerfire Cartridges
Edition 6

On page 53 , 54 of the guide they list Small Pistol with their 357 magnum load data which includes some loads using N110. Perhaps a misprint? Since on page 62 they list a few light charge Cowboy 357 loads and do indeed list small rifle primers for them?

I have loaded more of the 158 grain loads with N110 and rifle primers but did not make it out to shoot while on vacation. This weekend I'll probably test them out.
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45
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Posted: July 08 2008 at 10:46pm | IP Logged Quote 45

.
wow...

yoyu are correct, TC !

I just viewed the Vihtavuori manual online

they have changed the primer recommendation to sm. pistol

likely due to receiving an unending stream of questions

the handloader mag. in which I saw an analysis of the N110 powder used in .357 mag. agreed with the older recom. to use sm. rifle primers --

it was not a velocity issue, a pressure issue, nor any difficulty in lighting up the powder

it had to do with consistency of the results -- the external ballistics.....and the sm. rifle prmrs. won out

as long as one does not use a magnum primer, there will be no pressure issues

I will continue with my sm. rifle primers

the current Viht. 'header' for the .357 magnum load data is: {online load guide # 6... accessed a few minutes ago}

Test barrel: 175 mm (7”), 1 in 18˝” twist

Primers: Small Pistol

Cases: Remington, trim-to length 32,60 mm (1.283”)



45

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TC Shooter
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Posted: July 13 2008 at 7:39pm | IP Logged Quote TC Shooter

Ok this is the last time I will bring this thread back to life! But I was at the range early this evening and am very pleased to report that my new 158 XTP loads using N110 and Federal small rifle primers resulted in some of the best groups ever fired with my 357 TC! And I have owned it for 19 years!

My first attempt today @ 25 yards resulted in my best ever 5 shot group at that distance with the 158XTP. Then moving to 50 yards I matched the best group I ever fired at that distance which was fired 6 years ago!

I think this N110 is some incredible stuff! And thanks to all who recommended the rifle primers , never would have imagined they could be used in 357 loads!

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BlackDiamond
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Posted: August 15 2008 at 2:05am | IP Logged Quote BlackDiamond

45 wrote:

One caution, do not use any magnum primers with the Vihtavuori powders ! -- it will spike pressures, big time ! -- I did that once in a less than max. .45 Colt load for my Ruger Blackhawk -- and got a BIG surprise, lots more recoil than I expected, from a much stronger load -- that load was using a CCI # 350 LP Magnum primer after running out of the std.


hello

I'm new to reloading and I made a mistake reading the handbooks.

I loaded some cartridges .44mag 240gr JSP with a starting charge of 17gr and 17.5gr of Vihtavuori N110 and I used the CCI350 large pistol magnum primers instead of the standard primers.

Do you think these cartridges are safe to shoot ?





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davemuzz
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Posted: August 15 2008 at 7:35am | IP Logged Quote davemuzz

BlackDiamond,

First of all...Welcome to the forum. There are a bunch of fellows on this forum who have a wealth of information about reloading. When I started reloading about 4 years ago, these guys were an invaluable source of info for me. When I would post a question that I thought was "dumb" these guys would handle it with class and point me in the right direction.....(and maybe they were really rolling on the floor laughing their a$$ off....but they never let me know).

Now, I've been loading with Vihtavouri N-110 for most of my 4 years for my 44 magnum. And just this year I purchased a 357 magnum and am using N-110 for that gun.

Pressure spikes are one of the dangers with reloading, and using magnum primers with Vit powders can cause just such a "pressure spike". So, IMHO....Yeah, I would say you should "yank 'n dump" these loads.

Now, you certainly can save the powder, and if the bullets are not crimped like the "jaws of death" (don't laugh....I've done this before) they will be fine to reuse...even if you have a few "scars" on 'em.

Now, you can do one of 2 things with the primers. You can de-cap a live primer....just do this SLOWLY when you re-size the brass AND WEAR EYE PROTECTION if you decide to do this.....OR, just put the brass with the primers only in your revolver and fire off the primers. They are loud, so if your doing this in an enclosed area, wear ear protection....oh...and warn your wife what your doing so she doesn't have a heart attack. Then you can just re-size without the concern of setting off a live primer.

MHO

Dave

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