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landtoy80
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 12:40pm | IP Logged Quote landtoy80

While looking for some data on Berry's Plated 150g 30-30 bullets I found Trail Boss Data.


Trail Boss has a reduced load formula.
You need to down load it.
Hodgdon.com
Go to DATA then Trail Boss Reduced Loads.
IF your Load Data is not listed here Trail Boss DATA Then use the formula.

IMR TRAIL BOSS� REDUCED LOADS FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL
As noted in the powder description section, Trail Boss was designed primarily for reduced loads using lead bullets in pistol cartridges. However, Trail Boss offers superb versatility in rifle cartridges producing reduced loads using lead or jacketed bullets. These reduced loads make firing such cartridges as the 300 Winchester Magnum or even the 458 Winchester Magnum pure fun!
Listed below we show a few examples of such loads throughout the Reloading Data Center, but the fun doesn't stop there. If you don't see Trail Boss data for your favorite cartridge we have a formula for developing loads for all cartridges and it's simple to follow. This formula may be used in both rifle and pistol applications:
1) Find where the base of the bullet to be loaded is located in the case and make a mark on the outside of the case at this location. Then fill the case to that mark with Trail Boss, pour into the scale pan and weigh. This is your maximum load. Pressures will be below the maximum allowed for this cartridge and perfectly safe to use!
2) Take 70% of this powder charge weight (multiply the maximum load from step 1 by .7), and that is your starting load.
3) Start with this beginning load and work up to your maximum charge, all the while searching for the most accurate reduced load. Once found, the fun begins!


Do I have this right, I can use this formula for all cast, plated and jacketed bullets rifle and pistol?

Unless I am not reading it correctly, this sound too good to be true.

I just want a plinking load for my 38 SP, 30-30, 41 Mag.
Tried it in my sons 30-06 using published data and it was a VERY light load.



Edited by landtoy80 on April 11 2010 at 8:08pm


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yyz
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 1:15pm | IP Logged Quote yyz

i have used trailboss for light gallery type loads in mil-surp rifles based on this article.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/trailbosskiss/index .asp

some guns like it some don't. have to try and see how that formula stacks up to what i have been using. trail boss has become my goto powder for reduced loads. works very well with cast bullets. have not tried jacketed or gas checked as that was the for the whole point of reducing the load so i would not have to gas check or use jacketed. but i don't see why they would not work.



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jamesicus
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 1:53pm | IP Logged Quote jamesicus

This series of posts detail my own experiences using IMR Trail Boss reduced loads IAW the Hodgdon prescriptions.

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turbo1889
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 2:11pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

     The formula Hodgdon puts forth does indeed work for all MODERN cartridges pistol or rifle. It is such a bulky powder that with a cartridge designed for modern chamber pressure levels and modern smokeless powders they are indeed correct that it is nearly impossible to get enough of the little grey cheerios inside the case to create too much chamber pressure.

     Extreme caution, however, should be exercised to ensure that the cartridge one is loading is not an older cartridge which was originally developed for the use of black powder at much lower chamber pressures. An excellent example of such a cartridge is the 45-Colt. A full case load in that particular cartridge capped off with the heavier weight bullet will indeed produce dangerously high chamber pressures. The same is true with other cartridges originally developed to use black powder such as some of the old obsolete Winchester rifle cartridges which have large case capacity and low pressure tolerances.

     Long story short - if the cartridge one is loading was developed for modern smokeless powder and modern firearms you are good to go with the formula. If it is a much older cartridge that was originally developed for black powder loads then extreme caution should be exercised since a combination of large case capacity combined with low chamber pressure tolerances may lead to potentially dangerous loads if the Hodgdon formula is blindly followed.

     On a personal note: If that formula had been written before Hodgdon (Darth Vader) conquered IMR (the resistance) they would have taken this factor into consideration and would have clearly included this information in the formula - Hodgdon is neither that smart or that concerned about their customers safety. They most likely consider those who still reload such obsolete cartridges as scarce and as obsolete as the cartridges they load and therefore of no concern.

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landtoy80
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 3:13pm | IP Logged Quote landtoy80

Here is the link to some of the loads including 45 Colt.
Trail Boss Data

What other powders have a universal formula, if any?

Edited by landtoy80 on April 11 2010 at 3:14pm


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turbo1889
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 5:30pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

landtoy80 wrote:
Here is the link to some of the loads including 45 Colt.
Trail Boss Data. . . .


     Thank you for posting that, it confirms what I was saying about their "universal" formula not being accurate for the older cartridges that were originally designed to use black powder. The start loads listed in their data for the 45-Colt are about 50% case capacity and their max loads are about 70-75% case capacity. Thus if you use their universal formula for the 45-Colt your start load will actually be a maximum never exceed load - and as any good reloader knows not every firearm and component combination is capable of reaching a maximum, never exceed load safely. That is why we have start loads and slowly work up towards maximum.

Quote:
. . . What other powders have a universal formula, if any? . . .


     There are a few other universal loads out there but not very many universal load formulas. Some examples I am familiar with are:

~ Use an equal weight charge of Reloader-17 powder to safely and accurately propel an equal weight, plain base, no gas check, WW-alloy, cast lead boolit in a rifle cartridge where the referenced load data calls for using Reloader-7 for a jacketed bullet load.

~ Use an equal VOLUME charge of IMR Trail Boss with a cast lead boolit (gas checked design is best) in a rifle cartridge where referenced load data for jacketed bullets shows the cartridge in question is well suited to the use of Reloader-7 for full power loads with the chosen bullet weight.

~ 13 grains of Alliant 2400 powder can be used as a universal charge when loading 410-bore shot shell charges either 2-1/2 or 3 loads with shot weights from 7/16 to 3/4 oz.

~ Using a full case compressed charge of Reloader-7 powder makes an excellent long-gun/carbine load for magnum revolver cartridges such as the 357-mag, 41-mag, 44-mag, 454-Casull, etc. . . These loads although safe to fire in handguns are specifically tailored to make use of the longer barrel lengths by using more of the slower burning powder.

~ 30 to 40 grains of Blue Dot are a pretty universal charge for 12ga. heavy field loads and buck shot loads with shot weights being between 1-1/4 and 2 oz. with the higher powder charges being used for the lighter shot weights and the lower powder charges being used for the heavier shot weights in a linear progressive scaling frame with little to no regard for the other components used in the load. For example; for a 2oz. load one would use 30 grains, for a 1-5/8oz. load one would use 35 grains, and for a 1-1/4oz. load one would use 40 grains. The charges for other weights would be evenly spaced inbetween those incriments - a pure linear relationship over that range of shot weights.

Im sure there are more then that but those are the ones I could think of right now off the top of my head.

Edited by turbo1889 on April 11 2010 at 5:39pm


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landtoy80
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 8:05pm | IP Logged Quote landtoy80


Check and use the load data first, then use the formula.


Edited by landtoy80 on April 11 2010 at 8:15pm


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STCM(SW)
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Posted: April 11 2010 at 10:35pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

I'm going to try TB in my .416 WBY I think....

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ArchAngelCD
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Posted: April 13 2010 at 1:57am | IP Logged Quote ArchAngelCD

One more important fact about Trail Boss. DO NOT compress that powder. If you breakup the "little donuts" you run the risk of spiking pressures. Part of what makes TB so low pressure and safe is it's shape and coating which control the burn rate. Break up the powder and the safeguards are gone because the burn rate changes dramatically.
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