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Subject Topic: rainier TCJ bullets for 44 magnum Post ReplyPost New Topic
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mikemmcd
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Posted: December 24 2004 at 3:05pm | IP Logged Quote mikemmcd

I am just starting out reloading my own ammo in 44 magnum and 40s&w. I do alot of shooting at an indoor pistol range and must use leadsafe bullets. Has anyone loaded the Rainier total copper jacket hollow point bullets for the 44 magnum and 40s&w? If so, what loading data are you using? I don't need full powerhouse loads for target shooting. I currently load 12 gauge shotgun shells with IMR 700x powder and would like to use the same for my handgun loads. Also want to get VV110 to load heavy 44 magnum loads for hunting.

I also have some questions about reloading pistol ammo. Do I need to buy a tumbler to clean the cases? Also, will I need to buy a trimmer as well? Anything else? The dies I am getting do not require case lube. I don't want to buy what I don't need. I am getting a scale. I am looking at the Lee hand loader to load since I cannot afford a more expensive press. I eventually plan to reload 30/06 as well.
Any tips or advice from any experienced handloaders would help.
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bculp72
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Posted: December 28 2004 at 1:16pm | IP Logged Quote bculp72

mike , i have loaded the rainiers in my 44 mag and didnt care for them at all. i switched to the remington bulk bullets for the same gun and have not looked back. the rainiers just didn't shoot well for me, especially at above ave. velocities. hope this helps. good luck!
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mikemmcd
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Posted: December 28 2004 at 1:21pm | IP Logged Quote mikemmcd

I really only wanted to use the rainiers because they are lead safe and I can shoot them at my local indoor range without worrying about lead. I plan to load them with 12 grs of IMR 800x for 1250fps. What kind of 44 are you shooting? I have a Ruger Super Redhawk with 9.5" barrel. I really don't care about the accuracy too much. I just plan to reload for target shooting and want some cheaper bullets. I might buy a box and try them out.
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BillM
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Posted: December 28 2004 at 1:52pm | IP Logged Quote BillM

Mike,

From what I can tell the Rainier Lead-Safe is a copper plated lead bullet. Many folks report poor results with copper plated bullets when they run them over 1200 fps.

I have been using West Coast Plated bullets with good results at target velocities (800 - 1000 fps from my load data books). Two of my guns shoot mid range (1200 - 1300 fps) loads well while one will spray them all over the place. When I use the lighter loads, they all behave nicely.

You may want to try starting around 1000 fps loads for practice and see how they do in your gun.

Bill

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HogRider
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Posted: December 28 2004 at 2:31pm | IP Logged Quote HogRider

I too had very bad experiences with the Rainier Copper Plated Bullets in 44 Magnum. I assume it has to to with them not having a crimp groove. Mild target loads were OK - but every time I have tried anything even close to magnum levels, the shots were all over the target
(or not even on it). I finally switched to Remington Jacketed Bulk Bullets and have never looked back.

BTW, the Rainier Bullets work great in 45 Auto (230 g).
I haven't found anything more accurate in this caliber.

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skred
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 11:38am | IP Logged Quote skred

The Ranier plated bullets are very accurate up to about 900-1000 fps in my Contender 10" handgun. In my Marlin 1894 (when they feed properly) they are accurate to 15-1600 fps.

Edited by skred on December 30 2004 at 11:40am
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mlspmk
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 2:16pm | IP Logged Quote mlspmk

Mike,

I would strongly recommend a tumbler - it makes your loads look a lot nicer and I truly beleive it reduces wear and tear on the dies. While carbide dies are very tough, they can get scratched from the grit on the cases.

You dont have to spend a lot of money to get good results, I got my tumbler for $45. EBAY has a bunch of them listed. You can catch a good deal at MidWayUSA at lot of times too.
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joed
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 3:59pm | IP Logged Quote joed

You'll find there are a lot of complaints about the Ranier bullets. I thought of using them once but decided against it because of the complaints.   I think you should look at Berrys, I heard nothing bad about them.

Yes, you will need a tumbler and a case trimmer and a scale, and just about every reloading tool there is, eventually.   You don't need that stuff immediately but sooner or later you'll want it. Pistol brass doesn't lengthen that much so you can survive without the trimmer for awhile.

Do what I did, start small.   Then in time if you stick with it add items.
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mikemmcd
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 4:18pm | IP Logged Quote mikemmcd

After reviewing the posts here and on other sites, I will not bother with the Rainier bullets. I will just be throwing the money away. Has anyone had experience with the Sierra 240gr JHC bullets? I can load them at 1200fps with IMR700x which is good enough for target shooting.
I also plan to load 40 s&w. Are the Rainiers just as bad?
I have a Glock 23.

Joed, I am going to start off with the basics. I did buy a scale. Thats a must since I bought a Lee handloader and must weight each charge. Pain, but I will eventually upgrade to a progressive press later.
I will need to buy a case trimmer as I will be loading 30-06 shells. As for tumbler, I assume that is mostly for cosmetics only unless the cases are really dirty. I can either through them out or just wipe them with a rag.
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hawkeye
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 5:11pm | IP Logged Quote hawkeye

Mike I've used Rainier in many different calibers including 44 mag and have found them to be excellent. Plated bullets of any kind are not intended to be used for higher loads so don't expect them to behave like a jacketed round, they aren't. There is nothing more accurate in my Kimber Gold Match. Lee loading manuals include a lot of data for plated bullets so check that out. Accurate Arms also has lots of data specifically for Rainier bullets.
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joed
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 6:12pm | IP Logged Quote joed

Mikemmcd, I started with a Lee handloader in .25-06. With a scale I put out some awesome rounds, but it did take awhile.   My second item was a trimmer and then a scale. Rifle brass seems to need trimming after every firing. The biggest time saver for me was a tumbler, once you get one you'll wonder how you survived without it.   Yes, you do need to clean the brass or it gets the dirt in the dies.

You may also want to call Nosler. I was buying Seconds from them at a resonable price.   

Not sure how you're going to like that velocity. For range work I try to hold mine down to about 1000 fps, it's easier on you and the gun.   
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mikemmcd
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 6:28pm | IP Logged Quote mikemmcd

I figure I might as well buy a trimmer now. I have not heard anything bad about the Lee handloader except it is slow and resizing rifle brass is hard. I can live with that for $20. I am currently using factory federal ammo in the american eagle line for my 44 mag. They use 240gr JHP at 1180fps and it is closer to 1250fps out of my 9.5" barrel Ruger SRH. I guess I can download the ammo and save on powder.
I guess the general concensous here is that the Rainier bullets are inaccurate at high velocities over 1200fps+.
I could try them at around 1000fps and see what they do.
I got to find some data for them. Again, all my loads are for shooting on the range so velocity really does not matter to much. I mainly need accuracy. I will be loading some serperate hunting ammo for the 44 magnum with castperformance 320gr WLNGC at 1400fps.
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dison
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 7:31pm | IP Logged Quote dison

Mike,
If you havent already bought the Lee loader, for about $80 I think you can get the Lee Aniversary kit. Press, scale, measure & auto prime.
Im fairly satisfied w/ mine though the scale is a little cheesey, & the measure doesnt do well w/ stick powder. The press isnt the strongest in the world, but any press beats a hammer for production :)
Thats what I started with, have loaded several thousand pistol rounds, as well as probably 1000 rounds between my rifles. I plan to upgrade the press & scales eventually, but that'll be awhile, as Im getting ready to go back to school next weekend.
Dave
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mlspmk
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Posted: December 30 2004 at 8:07pm | IP Logged Quote mlspmk

Try the Lee case trimmer setup - they can be done by hand or on a power drill. Very simple and cheap - less than $10 dollars and just a few bucks for more calibers. Like Joe said, you wont need it much for pistol brass.
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joed
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Posted: December 31 2004 at 3:31am | IP Logged Quote joed

dison wrote:
The press isnt the strongest in the world, but any press beats a hammer for production :)


I still remember using that hand loader with the hammer! Back then I lived in an apartment. I can remember the neighbors asking me what I was hammering on all the time. I still have that hand loader, can't bring myself to throw it away, and I have a rock chucker and rl550.
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mikemmcd
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Posted: December 31 2004 at 5:15am | IP Logged Quote mikemmcd

The Lee handloader does not require a hammer. The handloader is an actual hand held press. The Lee classic loader is the one that requires a hammer. I am going to get it through midwayusa. Here it is here http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/624416.
I am considering the Lee case trimmer. It will work fine for my 30-06 cases.
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joed
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Posted: December 31 2004 at 8:21am | IP Logged Quote joed

I have the Lee case trimmers and they work well. I try to stay away from Lee as their products don't look like they will last long but the case trimmers I've had for 25 years. However, I did have to replace the cutter which got dull over time.

So I can't say anything bad about the Lee case trimmers. If I were pressed for cash, I'd probably buy more Lee equipment.
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