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hubel458
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Posted: August 15 2006 at 7:25pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Ok-The Savage 210 is labeled 3 inch chamber.
It will take a little longer case. Using NEF
what we are doing in next month is to check cases
made by Rocky Mtn Cartridge. They have thick sides to match regular 12ga chamber, have shotgun primers,
so no work is needed on firing pin strength.
Our long chamber was made slightly smaller to
fit thinner case, eliminating to much expansion.
But factory chambers can't be made smaller.
Using shortened version of our case, makes a hard resize job on case as our walls are thinner, though plenty
strong to handle pressures. WE think that the Rocky
MTn cases still will get close to 5000 ft lbs,
in the NEF. More in the Savage, but you must have
heavy barrel to use slow powder loads. The muzzle of
Nef is much bigger than Savage..Ed.


Edited by hubel458 on August 15 2006 at 7:36pm
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500MagMan
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 7:48pm | IP Logged Quote 500MagMan

I saw the Ultra Sulgster there as well it has the hevyer barrle on it but i think it is only 22" long and i think it is $175 cheeper
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500MagMan
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Posted: August 16 2006 at 7:58pm | IP Logged Quote 500MagMan

Ok the Ultra Slugster by H&R has a 24" barrle and looks to be pritty thick walled I am going to look at one of them it waighs 9lbs I can makit hevyer prity easy I am going to put 2 13oz mercurey rcoil reducers in it and see if I can remove some materal from the forarm and but some lead in it.........
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hubel458
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 8:06am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Having fun now- getting hairy loads.
Rob shot a few 1000 grain Bridgers at 3250 fps
and he said he couldn't go any higher as recoil
was "severe". His Borchardt is 24 lbs, and can take
any pressure you could load for it and still
hang on. Cartridges of this size really gets
the juices flowing at over 23,000 ft lbs..Ed
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Slick
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Posted: August 24 2006 at 8:45pm | IP Logged Quote Slick

Hhmmmm... Gonna have to get one of these (if I can). Fun comes in BIG packages for sure!

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Ed R
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Posted: August 30 2006 at 6:34pm | IP Logged Quote Ed R

Wow & wow again.

I have two cannons - muzzeloading - one in 1 1/2" bore and the other 2.6" bore (3 pounder).

I'll keep the wheels on those - and never stand right behind them.

as for shooting your cartridge- I don't think my HMO would cover the disslocated shoulder or anyother damage.

But heck, you never know when you might need a cartridge like that - Texas armadillos are supposed to be growing thicker hides.
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bam4k
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Posted: August 31 2006 at 11:00am | IP Logged Quote bam4k

That is great!!! would love to shoot one.
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500MagMan
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Posted: August 31 2006 at 9:01pm | IP Logged Quote 500MagMan

Huble458 I went out and put a H&R Ultr slugster with 24" Bull barrle on layaway and i saw that the Savage 210 was marked down to $224.99 and put money down on that too

I would like to bild the H&R in to a smaller 12GA from Hell and leave the Savage 210 alone and just use it as a standred 12ga......
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hubel458
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Posted: September 05 2006 at 9:46pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is picture of replica 1887 12ga levergun
we are testing brass cases in.Ed

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hubel458
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Posted: September 12 2006 at 6:41pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Shot 12 double ought buckshot in 1887.
That's 624 grains worth. Used short
2.45 inch case that feeds from magazine.
Used fast ball powder, getting about
1500 fps. Further testing on 600 gr
hardened slug got 1700.That is in short
20 in barrel. Comparing this short case
with the 3.07 inch case I use in NEF there
is an inch difference in length of powder
column so it takes faster powder with
10k more pressure in 87 to get same velocities as in NEF. But the 1887 handles it fine.
It takes as much pressure as my Savage
in its present form.Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: September 16 2006 at 12:13am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

I got Rocky Mtn turned 12ga cases, and am
developing loads. They are 2 7/8 inches
long are for use in NEF and shortened
in 1887. These cases have shotgun
primers. Now these cases with shotgun primers and the two cases of ours we put small primers in don't fire the slow rifle powder loads
reliably,like cases with bmg primers.
Our testing is with 600 hardened Dixie slugs.
So I have and am testing slow shotgun powder and fast rifle.I tested 5 shotgun powders and
the primers fires then ok but the quick peak pressure when loads increased to get velocity
wanted in NEF caused too much case expansion just ahead of the base.Cases ejected ok but
that expansion and resizing will ruin cases
in a couple shots.These cases have a real thick base, and are machined to glass smooth finish.Nice cases.
I now testing AA1680 Ball and Re-7 they look good.
Have got loads with 2 wads and slug in
the Rocky Mtn case, and only .002 expansion
of case ahead of base. Will chrono next and
expect it to get velocity we want in NEF.
Nice thing about this testing is that same loads will work in shortened 87 case by just
using less wad column.Ed


Edited by hubel458 on September 30 2006 at 10:48pm
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hubel458
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Posted: September 23 2006 at 11:23pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

We tested RE-7 powder and got good results with
very little cases expansion. Got 600gr t0 1700
in 87 and 1850 in NEF. Come to conclusion that to
get the potential from the 87 and NEF that plastic cases
would work like the turned case.And we tested plastic.
Our testing has proved it with RE-7 loads........
In testing plastic cases in NEF and 87 I get
good case life with RE-7 loads. In 87 a Rem case
fired 5 times and it looks good. In NEf a Federal case
fired 6 times and looks good. Of course you can fire them once or twice and throw away at 3-5 cents each.
I got long heavy barrel ordered for 87 levergun,
and then we will be able to put zip to the slugs.Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: October 08 2006 at 9:24am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Got the NEF chambered for long case. And remember it
has beefed up hammer for bmg primers used in our case.
Got 2500 fps with 600 gr slug, cases eject out real easy,
8300 ft lbs from an NEF with 24 inch barrel.If you set up
NEF to use regular primers adapted to our case or
have Rocky Mtn make a long case you can do it without
a lot of work on the hammer and springs. Just use a
flake shotgun powder as a starter powder above the
primer, which how 700 NE and others are loaded.
Use 10 gr of flake and cut regular load 40 gr and
work up if pressures allow.Ed.
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hubel458
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Posted: October 14 2006 at 1:00am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

I got the hammer on 87 beefed up to fire big primers.
Still testing plastic and turned cases in 87.
We are testing small primers with 10gr starter powder(Blue
Dot) anD RE-7 and 15.Plastic cases max is 90gr RE-7 with
10 gr starter, turned brass case 110gr RE-7 10 gr starter.
WE had to go to starter powder as we was getting
delayed ignition and squib loads.
Testing the cases,plastic and brass with small
primers and starter powder ... A big find. IE we can't do
this for reliable ignition if the cases
are ballon head, whether plastic or brass.The cases must have the area between side and
the pprimer at least .200 thick.One reason is
strength. And some plastic I have measured is
only about .060 thick there and the protrusion
in the center for primer is .140 above that
thickness.. So 10 gr of starter powder is
in a groove so to speak and not on top of primer!!! That isn't good. I cut the cases
off at the brass base, poured in 10 gr
of flake powder and saw how it laid
in the case. Nice thing is that a most brands of cases are thick enough, like Win AAs.
So far RE-15 and Blue Dot starter looks
very good, and easy on cases.Velocity as good as RE-7.Will keep testing and I ran out of
RE-12 and the shops have no more, So
it will be RE-15 which I think turning
out best, or RE-7 in smaller
amounts.Ed.
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hubel458
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Posted: October 25 2006 at 6:58pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Been testing IMR-4759. No ignition problems.
Ignition is instant with regular primers.
Don't need Blue Dot starter powder,
like we had to do with RE-7 and RE-15
for good reliable ignition.We did 4759 in
plastic cases first.600 gr slug. I got a
nice working roll crimper attachment
for drill press for crimping slugs.
That sure makes it easy, and perfect crimp.
In 2 & 3/4 plastic cases with loaded
length of about 2.35 inches got to 80gr.
That's max as you must leave room for
about 3/8 wads or cushion wad. Some cases
may only hold 75 grains max due to
the case construction.Powder is less dense
than RE-15. 1650 plus fps in 24 inch barrel.
In 3 inch cases, loaded length about 2.6
inches, got to 95 grs max, 1800 plus fps.
Some cases may only hold 90 gr due to
case construction. Cushion is
a half inch felt wad or equivalent.
Both lengths start down and go up
if pressures allow. 60 gr short case,70 long.
This powder being faster than RE-15 you must
have a little cushion in the way of felt wads
or plastic cushion wads.With slower RE-15
a card wad works ok as powder started slower.
The powder burning must build pressure
to open crimp without a to high pressure spike.
This bulky powder with reliable ignition
is a winner.Then we tested 3" Rocky Mtn brass
cases, Got max load of 105 gr, and 1900 plus
fps. In few weeks will get the 4759 and RE-15
loads pressure tested.Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: October 28 2006 at 2:16pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Now these loads are for only heavy barreled
steel action guns like the NEF Ultra 12,
or like my Savage with heavy barrel added.
I am getting heavy barrel on the 87 and
it will be long.There are some turn bolt
locking lug pumpguns that would work
with heavy barrels.There is a large
12ga Tula bolt action, but it's not imported.
This week if weather allows(no rain)
I will be firing first test loads of my
700HE long belted case.Ed.
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hubel458
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Posted: November 02 2006 at 6:40pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Found an O/U that would handle the 4759 3"
loads. It is the Zoli Z-Sport. Expensive,
all alloy steel construction, tested to
about 100k. That's not a missprint.Their
site shows testing at the Italian proof house
of 8000 bar.That's 7-8 times regular shotgun
working loads.Pic of action below. It handling that extreme pressure, means that other quality
O/U like Ruger may handle 4759 loads.Ed



Edited by hubel458 on November 02 2006 at 10:07pm
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hubel458
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Posted: November 11 2006 at 12:06am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

am working on
scaling up falling block to handle
700NE, 600Ne. 12ga FH, etc.We wanted to go to bigger 4bore size copy of Wickcliffe
but the short hammer carried on the breech
is too light to fire big primers.and hammer spring can't be made heavier either.So I am
drawing one scaled up to 12ga and 700NE size.
If used with our 12ga FH case will have to have
primer bushing........
SO- today the boy and I set up a mill.
And we along with old machinist guy couple miles away will build a model scaled up with
basic action and breech block designed to work with lever,toggle link. 1.25" barrel thread.

And for the 4bore size falling block, the
HSFB, 1.5 barrel thread, 2' wide action we
will combine a little from Stevens 44 1/2,
Ruger #1, Win 85, Sharps highpower falling
block. The Wickcliff copies a lot in its breech
from the Stevens.We will use a big hammer in the
rear of action with heavy springs,
to fire big primers. Half cock safety.Those
we appropriated from other break actions and
along with trigger and a lever are on
the way from
Gun Parts.Ed.


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the great orator
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Posted: November 11 2006 at 9:38am | IP Logged Quote the great orator

Woah. just Woah.

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hubel458
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Posted: November 13 2006 at 6:14pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Hot damnn- Test Results of 4 plastic cases.
Rem high base 3" case, with 600 gr
Dixie hardened slug. Roll crimped with
crimper in drill press. All 4 loaded with
90 gr of 4759. We have a winner.
Average velocity of 4 -- 1938 fps
Average pressure of 4 -- 14, 575 psi.
tested with transducer test ing setup,
in 30 inch barrel,In my 24" NEF I got 1800+.
Cases fell out of his test chamber like they did out of
my NEF.And with some cases I can get in 95gr,
that I figured with my math would
have 15k psi.So my math and developement is
OK.And 4800 ft lbs, thats neat with plastic.
Tom says this load will do in any gun that handles
the 2 oz factory magnum goose loads
that test about 13,600 to 14,000.And 4759
will give slower time to peak pressure, thus
will be easier on cases than magnum goose loads
or the hot factory Buckhamer slug loads
I fired, that expanded cases as much or more
than our 4759 loads.Ed
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