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hubel458
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Posted: November 21 2006 at 9:26pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Buckhammer 3 "factory loads are 15k psi.
A 2.75 inch case with 80 gr of 4759, a thin card wad,
a 3/8 cushion lubed felt wad, when crimped is about
2.4 inches long, with 600gr Dixie slug. Based on
pressures recorded in previous post for 3 inch case
and 90gr of 4759, they will run about 13,400 psi,
and work through modern guns.Another load tested with
same bullet, 65gr of 4759, tested at same place
was 11,800 psi and 1640 fps. So you don't have
to put in my max loads, but go down a
little and use in modern guns that
are lighter than NEF so they don't kick so bad.But yet
you can get fairly good energy levels for big game, 3300
to 4000 ft lbs of energy.Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: November 26 2006 at 9:41pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Some research. Anyone with a Mauser converted
to 12ga shotgun can fire our 4759 loads.
One was the GEHA, other REMO. The locking lug for bolt is the rear safety lug and if you wanted an extra lug do an Ed on the bolt
handle base to make contact between bolt handle and bolt handle recess.They are not long enough
for our full length case, but came with 2 3/4"
chamber and magazine.Were 2 shot large ring
converted military mausers.Studying this gun lead me to the idea that a fancy 12ga with 3" chamber could be made by the same thing that Germans did to the Mauser to make GEHA. Just use
a S&L, Colt Sauer, etc, with rear locking lugs.
Grind out inside diameter of action from rear reciever forward so 12ga case will feed, Rear of bolt will still center ok as lugs and metal
are there. The silver solder combination guide extension to support 12ga case on the left side
of bolt, and put extractor on right side.
Like a Sako or whatever.Face off the recess on front off bolt flat, Put in 12ga barrel with chamfers to clear extractor.A 788 Rem
may work, at least with a 2.75" case.
For repeater action, Open mag
well to hold a single stack of 1 or 2
12ga cases.Fancy gunwrighters badmouthed
the GEHA, but geese hunters just loved them,
as they handled heavy loads fine. Ed.
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hubel458
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Posted: December 08 2006 at 10:58pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is picture of top part of the
first scale-up model, next to smaller
Wickliffe. It has 12GA FH round in feed
trough. It is aluminum just for a model.
It will handle 12GA FH, 700HE, 700NE, 600NE,
etc. Bottom of block is flat to set on
mill table to do the machining.Next machining
will be the hole and slot down through the
action for breech block and hammer to
slide up and down in.Its taken awhile to
get some tooling.I had none when we set up
vertical mill, and have to get more.The
action model also will be narrowed up when
finished, and contoured to look as good
as the Wickcliffe.Ed.

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hubel458
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Posted: December 16 2006 at 9:10pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Tested the Wickcliffe with 12ga FH case
in a temperary chamber to see if
hammer with beefed up spring would fire
bmg primers.I scalloped out the back
of the action so 12ga cases would feed
into the action and temp chamber
They fired ok. Bur the extra stiff spring
makes it hard to cock. We will have to work
on that.The original Wickcliffe
action that we want to scale up is tall
enough so that when breech block is
lowered the block clears the bottom
a 12ga rim when cases slide out of chamber.
So in the scale up we need to just add a
a little width for wider breech block,
and the bigger barrel thread, and keep the
sides thick for strength.Ed
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gstanfield
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Posted: December 16 2006 at 10:17pm | IP Logged Quote gstanfield

Cool notes, keep them coming. I'm a pretty decent machinest, maybe one day I'll get the ambition to tackle such a project.

George

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hubel458
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Posted: December 20 2006 at 8:33pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

In response to guys who can't find 4759
we will test powders in the same speed range.
Tested 2 fast stick powders, 4198 and 4227.
Both didn't ignite good with small primers
in plastic cases. Another I plan on trying
VV110, when I find some. It is bulkier
and slight chance may work like 4759. Ed
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BAGTIC
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 4:22pm | IP Logged Quote BAGTIC

Hubel,

Does someone make primer pocket bushings for the .50 BMG pocket to convert to Large ifle. Some of us have neither the equipment or know how to make them out selves.
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hubel458
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Posted: December 24 2006 at 6:13pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

None that I know of. And you'd still have to
thread the bmg pocket to screw in bushings
that would hold large rifle primers.I will
check to see if there are any. ED
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hubel458
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Posted: December 30 2006 at 9:34pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Fired couple 3.5" cases with 90gr
4759 and 460 grains of buckshot,
14 number 1 buckshot.Fired in nef,
pattern huge due to rifling, even with
shotcup. They were going 2000 fps plus,
and went through 1/8 steel on end of
stand. Ignition perfect, extracted easy.
In smoothbore be a real hairy load.
With three 3.5" plastic cases with
100gr 4759, 600gr slug. Used .135 card wad,
a 1/2" and 1/4" felt wads. 1900+ fps
in 24" NEF barrel, same low pressure as
the 3" cases we pressure tested. I have NEF
chamber lengthened for our longer
brass case. A nice long barrel we'd
have 2050 plus.Ed
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Loudenboomer
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Posted: December 31 2006 at 4:29pm | IP Logged Quote Loudenboomer

Ed
You mentioned some guys are having a hard time finding 4759. Jeff Bartlett at www.gibrass.com is listing a surplus 4759 clone cheep.
Hope this helps
Kevin
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hubel458
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Posted: December 31 2006 at 7:58pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Thanks for info and will check info
with Bartlett.From description given on
his site it's a fine flake powder and by the
number he gives it may to be faster
like IMR fast, flake, shotgun powders..
The IMR4759 isn't a fine flake
powder, but extruded with holes/pores
through the middle.It don't pack like
fine powders which is why it lights up
good with regular primers, in a large
diameter case like 12 ga.Ed.

Edited by hubel458 on December 31 2006 at 8:23pm
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hubel458
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Posted: January 09 2007 at 4:43pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is pictures of the breech, lever,
linkage, etc, set up on a block to
get the geometry for the scaleup model working
ok.And setup measurements to make the breech
hole in the action, in right place.Also used
this model to get hammer and trigger set
up to ride on the breech block. With
a strong hammer and trigger in the right
place in the guard.In the pics above you see the pin the
lever pivots on. The actions being bigger
will be wider than the levers;So the space on the
pivot will be taken up by the Ruger
style extractor on the left side and a spacer
on the right side. Spacer also acts as a
breech block stop at the bottom of the
breech travel.So to get block stopped at
right position for the diameter of the case
and feed trough, we adjust spacer size.
Ruger extractors from GP changed
a little bit will do.Ed.




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Loudenboomer
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Posted: January 11 2007 at 6:12am | IP Logged Quote Loudenboomer

Ed. Pardon me if I mised this on a earlyer post but have you tried The Greener Martini Action. Greener Martini action shotguns were fairly popular with the British Commonwelth about 1900. This was a robust single shot action offered at reasonable prices a couple years ago. It would be interesting researching this action with your loads.
Kevin
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hubel458
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Posted: January 11 2007 at 7:21am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

I have a Greener action here I checked out.
It would feed 3' brass cases without binding.
It feed long cases with a little changing.
Maybe in the future I will do one.I'd
like to see someone do a modern steel
replica.Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: January 15 2007 at 11:29pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Found info an a double that would work
for making 12GA FH. It's a Spanish 10 ga
on an 8 ga frame that we think Stoeger and
maybe others imported years ago. It says
No. 6 HG on trigger guard. It is over 2 & 3/4"
across outside of both barrels, chopperlump
barrel pivots, with heavy locking lugs,
and A purdey style third fastener.Top lever.
Barrels are big enough to use as monoblocks
to screw in heavy 12ga barrels, with same size
threads as my Savage and it being a huge action
could handle same loads as the Savage.Like
12-17,000 ft lbs. Ed.
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hubel458
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Posted: January 23 2007 at 10:43pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is sectioned action with parts in.
Original action that had defects
that I sectioned down the middle..I
ground out the top to allow case
to set higher, representing a
the taller action that we will
have due to larger diameter cases.
That lever in the picture is the
lever we will use with longer stroke.
Also in the action layout is the
breechblock, hammer, trigger with a
12GA FH in front, all in to check layout.
This lever looks to be easier to fit
and shape to bigger action and stock,
with a good pistolgrip to handle recoil.
Lever shape fits where trigger is better.Ed

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bam4k
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Posted: January 23 2007 at 10:44pm | IP Logged Quote bam4k

It's looking good! I can't wait to hear more.

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hubel458
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Posted: January 28 2007 at 2:25am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Hairy double pump 870 big bore.20 shots
BE Real neat with 600gr 4759 slug loads.
Fires both or one at atime.
In classified on THR.Ed

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hubel458
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Posted: January 31 2007 at 7:19pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

I will be posting more research on this thread
about other powders in 12ga plastic cases,about the
12GA FH loads, about scaled up falling
blocks, about my favorite the 700HE long
belted case, and the 28GA FH.Here is picture of
some other cartridges I have with some of mine.
1st= 408CT, 2nd- T-rex necked to 416- 3rd- 600OK
4th- 510HE, 5th-585HE, 6th-700H 3.25, 7th-12GA FH,
8th-700HE. Last most powerful. Ed



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hubel458
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Posted: February 02 2007 at 5:04pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

For you big bore collectors.Here is
a gun that make good buckshot
deer gun. Use big buckshot.If
your into collecting cases - Maybe
get some for collections as the guys
who ordered them, didn't take them all.
There is a whole bunch of the Tula 4bore
cases at Rocky Mtn Cartridge Co.
This was the run we had made for the
Tula 4bore pumpgun. It's a 3inch 4bore
case. 20 bucks single case, shipping and all.
The price of brass and machining is twice that.
Here is pic of the gun it went into.Ed


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