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JohnK
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| Posted: March 08 2004 at 10:26am | IP Logged
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Glen Fryxell has written another great article on cast bullets for us. This time on the various 38 caliber SWC designs, including some terrific photos of the various bullets and molds.
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=24
I still think the classic 358429 is my favorite, even though it doesn't fit quite right in my GP100 in magnum cases. 
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JimH
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| Posted: March 08 2004 at 10:58am | IP Logged
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That was interesting and informative. Going back a long way (well not before the invention of black powder but close  ), I always liked the consistency of the SWC bullet over the fickleness of the early jacketed expanding bullets (sometimes they acted like ball and sometimes they exploded and sometimes they actually just expanded). But most of my SWC experience was with .44s and .45s and they seemed to work well.
I had good luck on the range with .357s and 158 gr. swcs, getting them to 1450 fps in my 4" model 19 and almsot 1500 in my 4 3/4" Flattop ruger. I figured this was probably the best I could do with a .357 but the first woodchuck I shot I ended up shooting it 6 times before it actually decided to quit getting back up. I could not hear well for quite a few days. Never shot anything big with such a load but a few friends have and don't report anything spectacular there either. The few police forces that use SWCs (almost all in .38 or .38+P) report virtually no increase in performance over LRN - perhaps the velocity is too low to make a difference. Even the lead SWC factory .357s don't show very good performance (you would think they would expand some as soft as they are!).
Could it be that the meplat on the .357 is just small enough that it does not do that normal flat point "thing" (I have seen a lot of critters - 200 pound + critters - fall to rather sedate .45 colt Keith bullets).
What gives, or am I just unlucky? These days I tend to load my .35s with expanding bullets though I still like the big bore SWC and WCs. I really like cast bullets (or even swaged) and am always on the lookout for a cast/swaged SWCHP that is just hard enough not to lead too badly at reasonable velocites.
I guess I should mention that I am pretty picky. If a deer or boar runs 25 yards and falls dead I might consider it a successful (and humane) hunt but I also consider it a failure to stop.
I would like to hear from some folks that have had the .357 SWC work instantly for.
Best regards,
Jim H.
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specops
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| Posted: March 08 2004 at 3:12pm | IP Logged
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I've had similar experience with the .357 SWC in solid nose form. I have an old Ideal Keith mold that I had modified and made a handle up that allowed me to change the hollow point shape (got the idea from a Dean Grennell article). Cast from straight WWs and it made all the difference in the world. Even Elmer recommended using the HP version of his 357 bullet. Most animals hit with a cast bullet will not go down instantly (though my 45/70 comes close). I hollow point my 358156s by hand ( only cause I have a 6 cavity mold) and find they work about the same. If you get bullets that fragment after expanding try softening them up with lead. Somewhere around 16/1 to 20/1 seems to work best but I haven't had any real problems with just WWs even thorugh my carbine.
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blackhawk44
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| Posted: March 08 2004 at 3:53pm | IP Logged
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JimH, you had the answer when you said "Could it be...".
Exactly. Its just like prize fights, basketball players and car wrecks; a good big one will always beat a good little one.
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.41Dude
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| Posted: March 09 2004 at 4:52am | IP Logged
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Thanks for the heads up John. Great article.
I have to go back and re-read it after my coffee kicks in  . Glen knows his stuff.
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JimH
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| Posted: March 09 2004 at 6:16am | IP Logged
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blackhawk44 wrote:
JimH, you had the answer when you said "Could it be...".
Exactly. Its just like prize fights, basketball players and car wrecks; a good big one will always beat a good little one. |
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You know, I intuitively know that, but every few years I loose my mind and have to test to see if all these guys that write volumes about high velocity handguns (is that a contradiction in terms?) are correct. I am due to regain my sanity anytime now
Thanks!
Jim H.
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35 nut
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| Posted: March 09 2004 at 8:15am | IP Logged
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Thanks John and Glenn, Most of us would never have the chance to see some of those old moulds and know there history.
>Jim H
but the first woodchuck I shot I ended up shooting it 6 times before it actually decided to quit getting back up. I could not hear well for quite a few days. Never shot anything big with such a load but a few friends have and don't report anything spectacular there either. <
That sort of thing is what turned me off the SWC in .357, I have experienced the same thing to many times.
In my experience the RF nose profile or the LBT are much better killers in the .357.
My mold collection for the .357 is pretty small these days, it consists of the Lee 158 RF for general shooting and small game hunting. For the more serious shooting and hunting 180 LBT FN gets the nod.
Over at the Accurate site Lar 45 drew up a version of the LBT 180 style of bullet and is having Lee cut it in a six cavity block, cost is $41 shipped to your door. I believe he is still excepting orders.
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Handgunr
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| Posted: March 09 2004 at 8:16am | IP Logged
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Jim,
My logical sense tells me that as the meplat on a good .44 cast SWC seems to hit harder on impact than a jacketed counterpart, the same effect would translate to the .357, but, I'm sure, on a smaller scale.
Comparitively, the .357 cast SWC's definitely don't have the "SLAP" that the .44SWC's do at the same velocity.
The 50S&W has gotta be a real hammer.
Another great, and well thought article from Glen.
Take care all,
Bob
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deadeye charlie
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| Posted: February 20 2005 at 6:00pm | IP Logged
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I've owned a 4 cavity 358429 for 30 + years. I've shot it in just about every 38 cal. revolver that I've owned ( that's a bunch ). I cast it out of my home brewed #2 aloy. 3.2 grs of bullseye in a 38spl case will shoot under 1.5" @ 25 yds. out of 2 of my Pythons. For a heavier load I use 7 grs of Unique.
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Highlander
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| Posted: February 21 2005 at 2:41am | IP Logged
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John,
Thanks for the heads up on the new article. The Lyman 358429 is also my favorite 38/357 cast bullet I think mostly because it is a classic and not for practical reasons. I load it in 357 Mag cases and have no trouble with it fitting the length of my Security Six, 686, or GP100 cylinders. The OAL with bullets from my mould is 1.645". The meplat of the 38 SWC bullet is actually quite small. I think the "newer" LBT type bullets with bore riding noses and 80% meplats would be much better for hunting light big game with a 35 cal bore size.
Brian
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frontstuffers
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| Posted: February 21 2005 at 5:43am | IP Logged
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35 nut wrote:
| Over at the Accurate site Lar 45 drew up a version of the LBT 180 style of bullet and is having Lee cut it in a six cavity block, cost is $41 shipped to your door. I believe he is still excepting orders. |
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Would you happen to have the address for the Accurate site? I am not familiar with that one.  Also, do you know if there is a picture of the bullet he has come up with?
Thanks.
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LAH
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| Posted: February 21 2005 at 5:59am | IP Logged
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deadeye charlie welcome to the board.
I've used the .357 a bit, mostly in an old 586 S&W. I've had no problems with groundhogs, crows, snakes, dogs, and cats. Never used it on anything larger.
I like the L-358429 and 15 grs. of H-110. Skeeter used the L-358156 in both solid and hollow point form. He was a believer.
We have better cartridges for cast bullet hunting but IMHO the .357 is a useful tool.
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BlueMoon
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| Posted: February 21 2005 at 1:45pm | IP Logged
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I'm a new user and cast the Lyman 358429 also. If I remember right the OAL is 1.660" for shooting in my GP100. Does anyone know if this would cycle through a lever action rifle. I also cast the Ly. 429421 for my Marlin '94 in 44mag and the OAL is 1.685" to catch the crimp groove and it will cycle in my rifle. I think the factory recomends using ammo of 1.595" or less for the 1894C Marlin .357.
My favorite load for my 6" .357 using a hard cast (Oregon Trail) 180grn is 15.0grns LilGun. It is the most accurate load I've found for 50yds. I am trying to match this accuracy with a bullet I cast myself but haven't been able to get out and try the 358429 with my LilGun loads yet. Thanks
Bill
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LAH
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| Posted: February 22 2005 at 4:29am | IP Logged
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Welcome to the board BlueMoon.
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James T.
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| Posted: February 22 2005 at 5:44pm | IP Logged
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Would you happen to have the address for the Accurate site? I am not familiar with that one. Also, do you know if there is a picture of the bullet he has come up with?
Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Fronstuffers
Check the date on the post you made reference to, that mold was cut and distributed about 8-9 months ago. The site is Accurate reloading just do a google for it, I don't have that site book marked anymore, If you dig in the archives you might be able to find a picture of it.
Another site to check is the aimoo cast bullets ,I believe there is a cad drawing there as well. Look in "group buys"
Right now on the aimoo site they are getting ready to do a custom Lee six cavity order for the 45 acp, probably be a hybrid copy of the RCBS 230 CM
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BlueMoon
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| Posted: February 23 2005 at 12:13pm | IP Logged
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Must be talking about http://www.accuratereloading.com
I'm seeing several names that I recognize on this site. Thanks LAH
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Handloads.Com Forum : Cast Bullets
Topic: New article: The 38 SWC bullet
