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JohnK
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 6:19pm | IP Logged
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What innovation most advanced firearms technology?
Conical bullets
Percussion caps
Revolving cylinders
Rifling
Self contained cartridge
Smokless powder
Other (explain)
Don't forget to go vote
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JohnK
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 6:22pm | IP Logged
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Lovesrugers brought up this question as something to spark some discussion. There are of course thousands of innovations in the industry, stainless, synthetic parts, the list is endless, but this seemed like a reasonable list of the big innovations - excluding the invention of black powder itself.
I think it's a toss up between percussion caps and the self contained cartridge, without the first we wouldn't have the second but getting everything in one package was a huge step forward.
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WiskyT
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 6:29pm | IP Logged
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Self contained cartridge. It's THE one advance that allowed for the firearm to really be relied upon. With a muzzloader, no matter how good you might be, it's only a matter of a few shots before you'll be in a melee that's just clubs, edged weapons, and hands. No different than cavemen.
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Buffalogun
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 6:38pm | IP Logged
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NO, NO, NO, Guys,
The "self-contained cartridge" was more for convenience.
It's "Rifling"! Without rifling, you wouldn't be able to hit the side of a barn at a hundred yards. We'd still be using the "Blunderbuss".
And "self-contained cartridges" in an un-rifled "Blunderbuss" would be just as inaccurate!
Mike 
Edited by Buffalogun on February 19 2007 at 6:40pm
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USA Joe
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 7:02pm | IP Logged
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Hi: Our main Battle tank has 105 smooth bore,and its not in accurate by any means..... Ah ha also I've witnessed 76 cal smooth bore Musket at 100yrds hitting Paper plates 75% of the time.... Soo I go with Whiskey on this one  and again a Blunderbuss is larger at the muzzle to spread shot, nails, rocks etc! The original BeeHive so to speak....By
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joed
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 7:31pm | IP Logged
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I'm with Buffalogun on the rifling. They just had a special on the History Channel a while back about firearms improvements.
I was amazed at the demo of a musket without rifling. No 2 bullets hit in the same place and the groups were several feet, not inches.
JoeD
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The_Shadow
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 7:45pm | IP Logged
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I voted self contained was a major step for speeding up rate of fire, reliability, portability as well as repeat ability through uniformity.
I agree rifling greatly improved accuracy with repeat ability. Smokeless powder greatly improved velocity, and shelf life reliability in multi environments.
But I think the future lies with caseless ammunition, still self contained, maybe electronic fire instead of percussion cap.
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Paul5388
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 8:16pm | IP Logged
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All the things listed are certainly things that have contributed, but smokeless powder is what brought us out of the 1500 fps or so cap on velocity. If it wasn't for smokeless powder, we would still be shooting slightly above the sonic barrier and there still would be much need in a jacketed bullet.
Joe, I think all of the 105s were rifled. It's the 120 mm that's a smoothbore with the projectile creating it's own spin. The Marines still used a few 105s in the Iraq invasions.
I forgot to mention that all of the really big guns do not use a cartridge. The projectile is loaded and then bags of powder are loaded after that. Therefore, the self contained cartridge isn't absolutely necessary. It's the smokeless powder that allows them to really do their thing. 
Edited by Paul5388 on February 19 2007 at 8:19pm
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USA Joe
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 8:37pm | IP Logged
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Hi Paul5388: You are correct, I must have been using rented fingers to type 105 when its 120 
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Ranch 13
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| Posted: February 19 2007 at 9:13pm | IP Logged
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Smokeless powder made all sorts of things possible, from higher velocity to the various forms of automatic weapons.
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rhead
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| Posted: February 20 2007 at 3:20am | IP Logged
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I went with precussion caps. Rifling was a close second with me.
My reasoning is that the caps made the self contained ammo possible, ditto on the practicle revolver, and the self contained cartridge.
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Jim Higginbotham
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| Posted: February 20 2007 at 5:34am | IP Logged
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You guys have me there. Every one of those things was important but to what degree I do not know.
At some point however steel alloy has to come into the picture...we would not be where we are without sturdy metal to hold the pressure.
Jim H.
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JimP.
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| Posted: February 20 2007 at 7:01am | IP Logged
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I believe it is smokeless powder, without it we would still be stuck at BP velocities ....JImP. 
Edited by JimP. on February 20 2007 at 7:02am
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J Miller
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Paul5388, Ranch13, and JimP beat me to it. My vote is smokeless powder.
Just stop to think of the cartridges we have today only because of smokeless powder.
The list is endless.
All the other things made shooting more accurate, more convienient, easier, but untill smokeless powder we were restricted to slow moving projectiles and filthy corrosive powder.
Joe
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treeman
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The percussion cap! Reliable and simple priming made revolvers and self contained cartridges possible. Rifling is a great boon but effective firearms existed without it. Revolvers and cartridges existed before the cap but they stunk. The cap blew the doors off the invention barn.
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gstanfield
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| Posted: February 20 2007 at 10:42am | IP Logged
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I've always considered the firearms progression to be in three major steps. First was the step from smoothbore to rifled. This allowed much better accuracy. conical bullets and percussion caps kinda fell in during this era, and while they did improve consistnacy they also had their drawbacks. A concial took mroe lead to cast and lead at times was very precious. As great as caps were you have to find a store that sold them. A frontiersman could pick up flints as he walked and make his own powder, but there wasn't really a way to shoot a caplock without caps.
The next revolution was the cartridge case. This allowed for faster/more follow up shots and really exapanded the capabilities as a weapon of war. It also made shooting easier and precision easier as it did away with the variable of how much powder was loaded and in a situation where time was of the essence it removed the possibility to forget to put powder in before you loaded the bullet. It also made the weapons lighter as you did away with the ramrod and made the soldiers/hunters easier going in the field as you didn't have to carry powder horns/caps(or spare flints)/ball pouches/starters/measuring devices/and such. Storage in belts and bandoliers became possible making again things more convienent.
The thrid major revolution was smokeless powder. It allowed for the development of all sorts of new action designs, tighter tolerances, more accurate shots (at least after the first few) varied burn rates to suit diffrent combinations, allowed for smaller more compact cases with higher velocity and more energy oncde again making lighter the load carried afield.
Which is most important? I dunno that there is any one right answer as smokeless without cases wouldn't be much improvement, but neither would be cases without rifling. What good would a smoothbore round ball really be with smokeless powder? The way I see it there are these three major events that all tie together and the end result is the wonderful world of modern equipment we have today.
The important question is, what will be the next major revolution? I really don't what it would be, if I did I would be working to develop it and be the next John Moses Browning or the next Henry, or winchester or Parker or Hawkins.
Ceramic barrels? Maybe.....
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Cracker
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Quote:
The next revolution was the cartridge case. This allowed for faster/more follow up shots and really exapanded the capabilities as a weapon of war. |
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You can certainly tell this forum is dominated by autoloader shooters. Rapid follow up shots were available in muzzle loading revolvers long before self contained cartrides.
Rifling was number one.
Lee
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gstanfield
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| Posted: February 20 2007 at 2:07pm | IP Logged
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NO, I don't shoot autoloaders very much. as a fact I own more muzzle loaders than any other category of rifle (8 ML's and only about 5-6 each of single shot and bolt, and lever) my comments were directed towards military use when I said that. Over the course of a day's battle you'll throw a lot mroe lead down range with a single shot cartridge gun than a BP revolver.
FWIW, I only own one semi auto rifle
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Ranch 13
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Lee Bell wrote:
[QUOTE]
You can certainly tell this forum is dominated by autoloader shooters.
Lee |
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 Now just how did you come to that bowlful of dogspiddle?
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Given time the poor guy will figure out which way the windage is...
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Handloads.Com Forum : General Discussion
Topic: What innovation most advcd firearms tech
