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engshooter
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Posted: June 07 2008 at 8:02am | IP Logged Quote engshooter

Thanx for that Paul will check out the site

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yyz
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Posted: August 28 2008 at 10:40am | IP Logged Quote yyz

hmm interesting topic. i treat scales like any other reloading component. when i change scales i start over same as with case or different lot of powder. (talking about max loads here) i have always been more interested in consistency batch to batch then true accuracy. once i develop a load on my equipment i like to duplicate that same load over and over till i change something. i like my scales to give me the same measurement with the same mass every time. now to me check weights give some thing to check my scales measure every time i use it. the fun with say 50 grn weights and scales is to see how many times it will weigh that weight and hit 50 grn or 49.1 or 50.1 (normal accuracy being +- .1 grn) also remember the bigger the scale (or any other measuring device) the more inconsistent it will be as a percentage of the scale sizes will dictate the amount of accuracy the device is capable of. ie a 6 inch caliper compared to a 24 foot tape measuring .001 of an inch. a 100 grn scale with a +-.1 is .1% accurate compare to a 1000grn scale to maintain the same +-.1 would have to be .01% accurate. a much harder standard to maintain cycle after cycle.

ok i digress.

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Paul5388
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Posted: August 28 2008 at 9:33pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

The scale I recently bought has a capacity of 50 grams (771 grains), but the accuracy is +/-.0154 gr (.001g) through the whole range. The readout rounds that off to .02 gr and will progress in .02 gr increments. It's relatively easy to load within +/- .02 gr, even in the 80 gr range.
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london
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Posted: October 07 2008 at 9:11am | IP Logged Quote london

Paul5388 wrote:
If you zero the pointer/scale with no weight on it, it should be zeroed for any weight.

There are 15.43 grains in 1 gram, so if you use M2 check weights like I do, the weight selections will roughly be in 15 grain increments. However, the better the quality of the check weights, the less deviation you have to contend with in the weights. A 1 gram M2 weight is accurate to 3 milligrams, but the tolerance is different for each weight in a set.
weight tolerances pdf

Here's the proper procedure for checking the accuracy of a scale/balance.

Quote:
     6. The accuracy of the weight set used to check balance calibrations must exceed the accuracy of the balance. Visually inspect the working weight set. If the weights are soiled or corroded, prevent use by labeling and segregating. Take appropriate action to ensure that the affected weights are cleaned or repaired followed by calibration. Corroded weights must be discarded and replaced.
    7. Verify that the working weight set has been checked to a standard weight set. If not checked by the due date, check the calibration based on the tolerances listed in Exhibit 2.
    8. Use the working weights or use tare zero (0) and working weights that bracket the range of the item(s) to be weighed to verify the accuracy of the balance. The results of the working weights must fall within the posted tolerance limits of the balance. Document results in the scientific notebook or as a QA record.
    NOTE: Use cotton or equivalent gloves and padded or nonmetallic forceps suitable for handling weights without scratching them. Metal forceps can scratch or pit weights, affecting the calibration of weights.
    a. If the balance measures the weights inaccurately, it is considered out of calibration. Tag, segregate, or otherwise control the balance to prevent its use until recalibrated.



As you can see, the scale is checked with the weights, it isn't zeroed with the weights.


Not Sure
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Paul5388
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Posted: October 07 2008 at 9:29am | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

Welcome to the forum london!

What are you "Not Sure" about? Maybe I can help clarify.
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Raw Win Mag
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Posted: December 28 2008 at 4:02pm | IP Logged Quote Raw Win Mag

Hello,
This may go unanswered, but I have to ask. I read this earlier on the first page of this discuission.

What does "And when using my electronic scales, I make sure there are no electronics or fluorescent lighting anywhere near the scales.

What do they have to do with the way the electronic scale and how it reads?
Thanks,
JS

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Rigmarol
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Posted: December 28 2008 at 4:54pm | IP Logged Quote Rigmarol

JS,
All electronics give off some amount of RF (Radio Frequency).

By keeping an electronic measuring device (scale) away from anything that could (possibly) cause interference to the point of making your device inaccurate, you are just playing it as safe as possible.

I'm certain there are scores of users that can accurately say, "I've never had any problems with {fill in the blank} turned and right next to my electronic scale."

It's just something that is possible and a suggestion to be aware of the possible trouble it may cause.

I, personally, found that having a block of packaging (styrofoam) about 2 inches from my balance beam (non electronic) created some sort of interference with the magnetic damper on the beam scale. It was weird and I was not able to repeat it the next day.



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Raw Win Mag
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Posted: December 28 2008 at 5:20pm | IP Logged Quote Raw Win Mag

Rigmarol,
I thank you for your time and information.
That is the first time I have heard that so I had to ask.
I will double check my reloading area tomorrow to make sure it is clear.
Thanks again,
JS

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langenc
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Posted: January 14 2009 at 7:35pm | IP Logged Quote langenc

For check weights one could get new coins-penny, quarter and nickle. Weigh and record. Several could weigh and we could see how our scales compare.

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Raw Win Mag
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Posted: January 14 2009 at 7:55pm | IP Logged Quote Raw Win Mag

langenc,
Sounds interesting and I'll weigh them tomorrow.

I am sure there will be some sort of differences unless we weighed the same exact coins?

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Paul5388
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Posted: January 14 2009 at 8:23pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

I hate to say it, but pennies and other coins aren't held to very close tolerances, just like bullets don't weigh exactly what they say they are.

It's much easier to get a single M2 weight for a couple of dollars and then you know what you're dealing with to closer tolerances than most reloading scales.

Here's a 1 g M2 weight (15.43 gr) for $3.49 plus shipping (shipping cost should go down when multiple items are ordered).
weight
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Raw Win Mag
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Posted: January 15 2009 at 1:26am | IP Logged Quote Raw Win Mag

Paul5388,
I figured the coins would be off a bit like you said.

I have a few different weights and use 2 scales, one Beam & one Digital to check my zero's.

Then I double check my powder weight every few with both scales.
It keeps things tighter and I shoot straighter too.

It works for me.
Thanks,
JS

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nksmfamjp
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Posted: January 25 2009 at 1:06pm | IP Logged Quote nksmfamjp

I have the Lyman check weight set and highly reccomend it. I too, wish it told me the weight tolerance of each weight. It strikess me that would be a simple thing to include in the instructions for us engineer. The good thin is it comes with tweezers and a case in a case fo the smaller weights. It avoids build up of oils and stuff which could add .1 - .2 over the years.
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Raw Win Mag
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Posted: January 25 2009 at 2:00pm | IP Logged Quote Raw Win Mag

That is a good point, the building up on the weights. I will have to check mine out on a second scale.
Thanks.
JS

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wbeatty
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Posted: April 10 2009 at 4:47am | IP Logged Quote wbeatty

Hi guys, I work in labs that use analitical scales, what I do make a standard. it can be anything and lable it as such. then when Im home. I calabrate my reloading scales. If you guy would like send me a self adressed envlope and I weigh ... say a penny out to 4 decimal places and drop it in your envlope along with the print out of the weight. WOHLLA a standard!

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hoghunter
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Posted: March 03 2010 at 6:59pm | IP Logged Quote hoghunter

I have a Ohaus Beam Balance I've used for over 30 years. I check the calibration every 12 months with a set of anayltic weights. Within the range that I use the balance (i.e. 5.5 grains to 45 grains, it's within + or - .1 grain).

I think RCBS markets some weights for checking reloading scales. It's a wise investment especially if you're pushing the envolope with reloads, which I don't but I still check my scale routinely.
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noylj
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Posted: August 07 2010 at 11:45am | IP Logged Quote noylj

I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but in 40 years of
working in laboratories, I have NEVER used a balance with
magnetic dampening. As far as I am concerned, that is a major
source of error (that error may be minor, but most of what error
there is comes from the mag dampening). Also, when Metler and
Sartorius brought out digital balances, the old balance beams
quickly disappeared except for ultra light and ultra accurate
balance needs (we had one balance that was a thin strand of glass
and the deflection determined the weight and we were measuring
somewhere around 0.00001 gram, as I remember.
The key, if you want to be sure is to buy a good set of laboratory
check weights, at least class 2. Of course, it isn't needed for
reloading, but if you really want to know and calibrate your
balance...
Analytical Weight Set Class 1 Weights range from 1mg-100g 1-2-
2-5 configuration 21 weights     Polished  &nb sp;  $885.00

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Paul5388
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Posted: August 07 2010 at 6:07pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

In 1968, we had a Mettler we used for common weighing, but we used a Becker Chain-O-Matic for USP grade testing. As you probably know, the Becker doesn't use a dampening system and necessitates reading the swing of the indicator as it moves beyond the zero point on both sides.

If one can achieve repeatability on a magnetic or oil dampened balance, accuracy is sufficient for the task at hand. Balances can be forced to move the same each time something is weighed. By lifting the pan with a plastic rod, or even a pencil, the pan will travel the same distance each time and be exposed to the magnetic field the same amount each time.

Class 2 standards are just a little less precise than an E2, which are both much too precise for the task at hand. The standard only has to be more accurate than the balance's accuracy, which is normally +/- .1 gr for reloading scales. That means M2 standards are sufficient for use as check weights. My M2s were very affordable, but I also have an F2.

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noylj
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Posted: August 17 2010 at 11:54pm | IP Logged Quote noylj

The least costly weight that exceeds the accuracy of a reloading
balance is a class 2.
I love hearing people say that they will stick with their balance beams
because the electronic doesn't read the same, so it must be
inaccurate.

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FM12
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Posted: October 18 2010 at 6:46pm | IP Logged Quote FM12

Youse guys use scales? How advanced are ya'll!

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