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Paul5388
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Posted: October 18 2010 at 7:27pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

Quote:
ANSI/ASTM Class 2 Appropriate for calibrating high-precision top loading balances with a readability as low as 0.01 g to 0.001 g.
With 15.43 gr/g. .01g *15.43 = .1543 gr, but that's the readability, not the precision. The level of precision only has to exceed +/- .00648g (6.48 mg) to be sufficient for the task at hand. The 1.0 gr M2 weight is accurate to +/- 3.0 mg, which is twice as good as needed.
http://www.troemner.com/pdf/HandbookMetricToleranceChartOIML Only.pdf

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leeyn
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Posted: March 18 2011 at 7:31pm | IP Logged Quote leeyn

I haven't noticed any "stickiness". I can drop 2 or three pieces of powder and watch the scale react just fine...

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shovel80
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 12:14pm | IP Logged Quote shovel80

I'm not sure about all this checking weights stuff..
I think if I use the same beam scale all the time, and I've worked up a load...Does it really matter if it reads exactly the same as a Check weight??...As long as the scale is cosistent within itself!?
Terry
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Paul5388
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 1:38pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

If the unwanted dust and dirt changing the weight isn't a problem for you then the beam would be good to go. Of course, no one else could duplicate what you're doing due to your measured weights not being the actual weights.

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Rigmarol
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 4:15pm | IP Logged Quote Rigmarol

shovel80 wrote:
I'm not sure about all this checking weights stuff..
I think if I use the same beam scale all the time, and I've worked up a
load...Does it really matter if it reads exactly the same as a Check
weight??...As long as the scale is cosistent within itself!?
Terry


If you have a dedicated scale that never moves or slides and has
absolutely no chance of being bumped then check weights could get
real dusty for you.

Some, me included, put our scales away until next time. Some times I
even use it at other parts of the bench which is made of wood and is
more level in some places than others so calibrating with check
weights is mandatory.

Same goes for my electric scale. Conditions change and it requires
calibration. Check weights are the best standard to use.

If the world is stable enough for you then checking and calibrating
would be a waste. But I'm sceptical that conditions are perfectly stable
enough to actually forgo the need for calibrating.
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shovel80
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 4:30pm | IP Logged Quote shovel80

Ok..My scale is always put away..covered,,,and everytime I use it I re-zero it...
If it was a grain off with a check weight you'd take apart the tray and recalibrate the lead balls inside of it??
Just curious...I've been using a beam scale for over 35 years...and never had an issue...I never thought that anybody should use a load that wasn't worked upto in their own fire arm anyway...
Never had an electronic scale...I do see the problem if the electronic and the beam scales don't match....Possibly.
Terry
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Paul5388
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 7:11pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

Terry,

I neglected to welcome you to the forum, so I hope this will suffice for a welcome aboard!

Normally the only zeroing there is to a beam scale is to reset the zero and making sure it isn't collecting dust/dirt. You're right, they are very stable. My 1973 Ohaus 505 is just as accurate as it was when it was new.

I can assume it will always be right, or I can check it periodically and make sure it's right, but sometimes the fulcrum, consisting of a sharp V-shaped pivot seated in a shallower V-shaped bearing, can get out of position or corroded and need some attention that a check will readily show.

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shovel80
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 7:58pm | IP Logged Quote shovel80

Thank You for the Welcome Paul!..
I've read some very interesting and imformative posts and opinions at this forum!
Hopefully I can be of some help to someone sometime..
Terry
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Rigmarol
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Posted: July 10 2011 at 9:37pm | IP Logged Quote Rigmarol

Terry, I lapsed in my manners, welcome aboard I hope you find this
group interesting enough to keep coming back. I'm sure you'll fit right
in.
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drcook
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Posted: March 25 2012 at 11:12am | IP Logged Quote drcook

I use a My Weigh IBalance 101 for reloading as well as an RCBS beam scale. The electronic scale is for bullets cases etc. I weigh each and every black powder charge on the balance beam and will weigh the smokeless charges for the precision .308 rifles I am building up on the RCBS as well.

One problem with electronics in our households, all electronics, not just scales, is surge and sag on the lines. Years ago I programmed a CNC lathe for a major defense contractor that turned out to have issues due to surge and sag. If you put a monitor on the lines, it will amaze you how dirty electric lines really are.

Do some reading on "power conditioners". There are some models available for home usage. They help your appliances to last longer and save on electric usage. Currently we have a whole house surge protector at the box, but this doesn't cleanup the dirty lines.

Rig, in your line of work, you should be familiar with dirty lines and how it affects the equipment you work with. Same thing with the scales.

Battery powered scales are subject also, as the batteries lose power due to use.

The MyWeigh Scale I have is pretty high quality. I can set the calibration weight on it and see the fluctuation due to the dirt on the lines. Normally would the amount of fluctuation hurt ? Probably not,

BUT

I would bet some of the unexplained fliers and unexplained powder charges that are out of the norm when folks reweigh them can be blamed on dirty lines.

Eventually I will find one of the expensive beam scales at a yard sale (like we used in chemistry class). But until then, I will stick with the RCBS beam scale as it won't change its readings due to outside influences.

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Lurker
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Posted: March 25 2012 at 5:04pm | IP Logged Quote Lurker

shovel80 wrote:
I'm not sure about all this checking weights stuff..
I think if I use the same beam scale all the time, and I've worked up a load...Does it really matter if it reads exactly the same as a Check weight??...As long as the scale is cosistent within itself!?
Terry


I don't think I would trust that to be accurate over the range of the scale...!

Bill
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Paul5388
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Posted: March 25 2012 at 6:59pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

Voltage fluctuations and other line problems can usually be handled by most battery powered surge devices. The battery is continuously being charged and then the inverter part feeds a constant voltage to the scale or computer from the battery.

This Mettler H80 electro-mechanical balance is probably similar to what drcook was referring to, if he didn't take chemistry too recently. It has the ability to read .0001 g.



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drcook
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Posted: March 25 2012 at 7:47pm | IP Logged Quote drcook

A mechanical scale should repeat itself, even if it deviates in its measurement against a standard. But what we don't know is if it is going back to the same setting from the prior use. But I would suspect, they are going back to "good enough", the variation wouldn't be enough to be noticeable. Humidity, or lack of, elevation, etc would cause more variation than the lack of precision in the scales.

That is with the cheaper scales we all use, myself included such as the RCBS. What I mean by cheaper is that they are not built to as high a quality as a laboratory grade mechanical beam scale.

With my My Weigh electronic scale. I can weigh a bullet. Take it off, put it back on, take it off, put it back on and the weight will vary maybe a tenth of a grain or so. I surmise that is due to the slight voltage irregularities on our lines.

Our neighbors used to burn out appliances and we used to go through light bulbs a lot.

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Posted: March 25 2012 at 8:22pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

I don't trust the electronic scales I have.
Back to my Ohaus 10.10 for me.
refurbished once at there place in N.J. 25 years ago.

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Posted: January 21 2013 at 8:59am | IP Logged Quote WideGlide

I didn't have a set of back up scales to check my
Lyman balance beam so I bought a set of electronic scale. Winstead & Peters from Barry's MFG.
They work great. You can use battery or AC adapter.
I have not use the AC adapter, running off the battery.


Edited by WideGlide on January 21 2013 at 9:00am


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Posted: April 21 2013 at 6:28pm | IP Logged Quote Smitty500Mag

The way I check my beam scales is every time before I start reloading I zero them out and then set them for the weight that I'm about to start loading. Then I get that amount of check weights out and drop them in the pan to see if everything lines up. If the scales don't level up to the mark like they should then I know I've got a problem.

This morning I was getting ready to load 43 grains of Hodgdon H110 for my S&W 500 Mag rounds so I dug out 43 grains of check weights and put them in the pan and it leveled right up so I knew I had the scales set right. I also do this every time I change the amount of powder that I put in a casing.

If I'm loading max. loads I check the weight of powder for every round. If I'm loading plinking loads that are min. loads then I trust my powder measure to do the job after I've checked the weights for the first 10 rounds or so. Then later I'll spot check a round every so often just to verify that my powder measure is still dropping the correct amount.

I've never had a dangerous load dropped by my Lee Powder Measures. Sometimes they'll vary a little but I've never had over a 1 grain difference after I get everything adjusted correctly and then the majority of time the weight is on the light side instead of to much.

In my opinion you can't check the scales to often. It only takes one boo boo to ruin a perfectly good day! And if you're really lucky it'll only be the day or gun that's been ruined and not your hands or eyes or worse your life.


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RB in GA
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 8:17pm | IP Logged Quote RB in GA

Yeah, you get a set of scales, digital, beam, whatever...

How do you know they are accurate. Me... all my friends reload, and all have different scales. I just got a BB, Dime, Nickle, Quarter, and Half and went over to their house and weighed them with their scales. I wrote down the the weight in grains for 3 different scales. Went home and verified them on my RCBS 505. All were within a 1/10 grain or so. I keep my "certified" weights in the scale box if I ever want to re-check.

Yeah, I know they all could be off, but very unlikely.
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Posted: April 25 2013 at 9:00pm | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

The biggest thing is understanding the scale, how to properly weigh an item with it, and know it limitations!

The limitation of my digital scale is it only registers even numbered tents of a grain, ie. 0.0, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8, therefore understanding this short coming means not expecting or trying weigh to the odd numbers with this digital scale.

Check weights are nice, but having another scale to verify is very handy. I have the RCBS 5-10 beam and it has been deadly accurate since day one. Using the Frankford Arsenal Digital scale an as explained on the first page of this post, I use the scale pan on both scales and zero each. This way any weight being measured in the pan must agree with each scale in use. By the way the Frankford Arsenal came with a 20 gram check weight, this equals 308.648 grains.

Recently my B-I-L purchased the RCBS 5-0-5 beam scale, so I brought both of mine to his house to verify his scale for him and show him how it works and that it was accurate and in agreement with both of mine exactly. The 5-0-5 takes more time to settle that the 5-10, this is due to the 5-0-5's dampening being less than the 5-10.
With a beam scale this is where quality pays dividends when the dampening settles quickly and accurately.

It is hard to not trust 3 different scales, that all show the exact same measurements...

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Posted: April 25 2013 at 10:37pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

My Ohause 10-10 has been refurbished once by the factory back in N.J. about 25 years ago.
I check it with the two electronic scales but don't use them when loading, vary too much on small loads.

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Smitty500Mag
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 4:51am | IP Logged Quote Smitty500Mag

The_Shadow wrote:
Check weights are nice, but having another scale to verify is very handy.


Using another scale to verify is fine but you still want to know that the numbers they are reading out is accurate. That requires using the check weights on one of them otherwise by chance (my luck)they both could be off and giving a false reading.
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