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kludge
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Posted: July 25 2010 at 6:32am | IP Logged Quote kludge

.358 Winchester is among the top five underappreciated cartridges, IMO. Go for it!
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kludge
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Posted: August 09 2010 at 7:59am | IP Logged Quote kludge

WARNING: The load data presented below appears to be safe in my rifle and my chamber, using my lots of components and my loading dies. Neither I nor Handloads.com make any claims of safety or suitability for use in any conceivable application.


Finally yesterday I was able to go to the range and spent a few hours developing load #1.

Load #1 is a Hornady 180gr SSP Interlock and Hodgdon Benchmark. Readings are at 15ft from the muzzle.

I started at 43.0gr of Benchmark, made careful measurements of the case head before and after, and worked up in 0.5gr increments to 46.0gr where I got flattening of the primer at 2498 fps, and strong recoil. I backed off 0.5gr so my MAX LOAD is 45.5gr of Benchmark with a COL of 2.343" (not seated to the cannelure, but 0.015" to 0.020" off the land in my chamber). I don't think 26.5gr would have fit without compression, but I wasn't tempted to compress Benchmark, which I think is toward the fast end of what this cartridge will be.

I shot 12 rounds total, and with 43.0gr velocity was just over 2300fps. I loaded 3 more with 45.5gr and average of four shots was 2461 fps. It's just a guess but it seemed like the best efficiency was at ~44.0gr at 2412fps; it took one grain to go from 2300 to 2400 and it took another 2 grains to get almost another 100fps, which was over max. I wish I could get my hands on a bottle of H4895 -- I think I can get another 100fps.

Shooting from a rest on a bench with nothing more than a t-shirt wasn't fun, even with a >8 pound rifle.

So far so good from the barrel. I imagine any of the loads will shoot cloverleafs at 50 yards. All the lower charges made one cloverleaf, all the upper charges made a cloverleaf ~1" to the right... very curious... I think I may have some more stock inletting to do...

If you have any insight on the right shift of the upper end loads, please chime in!

Edited by kludge on August 09 2010 at 8:12am
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Boomer
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Posted: August 09 2010 at 8:29am | IP Logged Quote Boomer

kludge wrote:
very curious... I think I may have some more stock inletting to do...

If you have any insight on the right shift of the upper end loads, please chime in!


More likely it not inletting, but rather where the BBl is pointed in it's vibration cycle the instant the bullet left the mussle that caused the group to shift. Not a problem, just means you need to adjust the sights. I'm basing this on the fact that you still have an excellent group, just hitting a different point on the target.

Edited by Boomer on August 09 2010 at 8:31am


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kludge
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Posted: September 07 2010 at 10:10am | IP Logged Quote kludge

WARNING: The load data presented below appears to be safe in my rifle and my chamber, using my lots of components and my loading dies. Neither I nor Handloads.com make any claims of safety or suitability for use in any conceivable application.

Just thought I'd give you all an update... got to do some development yesterday with 225gr Sierra Game King and BL-C(2).

Barrel = 22", 1:14"
Powder = BL-C(2), Primer = CCI 200, Bullet = .358" 225gr Sierra Game King, COL = 2.363"
Start load = 44.8gr vel = 2168 fps (easy recoil BTW, and exceeds 220gr .35 Rem max load by ~300fps)
Max load = 50.5gr vel = 2388 fps, Muzzle Energy = 2849 ft*lb.
Calculated Drop @ 300yd = 34.27", +/-3" MPBR = 235yd w/200yd zero, -11.9" @ 300yd w/200yd zero.
Energy @ 200yd = 1955 ft*lb, Energy @ 300yd = 1606 ft*lb.

I settled on 50.5gr as my max load and COL of 2.363". The bolt got hard to lift when I went to 51.0gr., and on 3 shots velocity was a bit erratic - 2518(?!), 2394, 2383. I backed off to 50.7gr and the velocity was very stable (2386, 2390, 2391) and I got just over 1/2" group at 50yd, but on 2 of 3 the bolt was still hard to lift.

My chrony got an error on 2 of 4 at 50.5gr but average of two shots was 2388fps (2375 & 2401) from my 22" barrel, so I'm really satisfied with that. Now I can load a bunch and shoot some real groups and longer ranges.

So this is within 50fps of the max load of BL-C(2) and the 225gr SGK in the .358 Winchester. But that's Hodgdon's data in a 26" test barrel. I have a 22" so this is very good news for me.

Note to self: make a plexiglass box to hold the scale while loading at the range... hmmmm.... maybe I can just get a clear tub and put over the scale.

Edited by kludge on September 07 2010 at 10:18am
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kludge
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Posted: October 04 2010 at 3:38pm | IP Logged Quote kludge

WARNING: The load data presented below appears to be safe in my rifle and my chamber, using my lots of components and my loading dies. Neither I nor Shooters Forum make any claims of safety or suitability for use in any conceivable application.

Update: I was back at the range yesterday, with the goal of getting sighted in @ 100 yards, and trying out the 200gr FTX bullet.

I loaded up a dozen of the 50.5gr BL-C(2), 225gr SGK loads mentioned above and headed out. By noon the temp was 60 degrees and the wind was fairly steady (I'll have to go back on a calmer day to verify my windage).

I shot a fouling shot, adjusted my scope, then shot a group. The first 3-shot group of the day was 0.50", so that was nice. However I misread the first shot, and moved the knobs the wrong way, so I spent some time getting back to center and getting adjusted for 3" high at 100 yards. A spotting scope would be nice... however a plastic tote turned upside down over the scale worked to make it stable in the wind.

As my loading block sat out in the weather I noticed a consistent trend. (I was taking my time, taking notes, etc. - 12 shots took me an hour or more) Each shot was slightly slower than the one before. The first shot went ~2380fps, and by the time I was done I was just under 2320fps. The last three shots went into a 0.72" group.

So for anyone developing a load with BL-C(2) note the temperature sensitivity, a max load on a cold day could be well over max on a hot day (it was in the upper 80's when I decided on this max load).

The FTX bullet is designed for the .35 Remington and I thought I would give it a go. I started at 49.0gr of BL-C(2) for just over 2300fps and stopped at 52.0gr. (This is the Hodgdon published load for .358 Win.) There were no signs of pressure and the velocity was ~2450fps. (I would work this load up again if shooting at higher temperatures! Also the case is very full even with the bullet seated way out.) After an e-mail exchange I had with Hornady I decided not to go above 2300fps on this bullet - and even then I would be hesitant to take a shot under 50 yards as the FTX bullet is designed for 1600 to 2000 fps.

At 2300fps at the muzzle, 2000fps would happen at around 100 yards, and 1600fps would come at ~270 yards. The factory claims 2225fps MV for LeveRevolution in .35 Rem but their load notes only go up to 2050fps. By comparison the 225gr SGK would fall to below 1900fps at ~240 yards, as stated in my previous post... but that's using the velocity numbers when temps are in the 80's.

Anyway I loaded up 3 more with 49.0gr of BL-C(2), just above or just below 2300fps and got a 1.25" group.

My buddy is going to try the Nosler bullets (225gr Accubond and Partition). He showed me one today, and the Accubond is one loooooong bullet, so I tend to believe the claim of a BC of .421. Nosler's web site says it's good down to 1800fps. If so... and if the 1:14" twist can keep it stable... it might be good out to 270 yards or so, depending on the MV he can get out of it. They claim a BC of .430 for the Partition... no boat tail or lead tip... I don't know if I can believe that.
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Boomer
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Posted: October 05 2010 at 12:29pm | IP Logged Quote Boomer

"They" say BLC-2 is VERY temp sensitive. I've heard stories of having to store ammo in a cooler during a match to be able to use it. Never experienced it myself, as I dont use it.. But I think you on the right track concerning load development.

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Dr.Lou
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Posted: October 10 2010 at 7:30am | IP Logged Quote Dr.Lou

FWIW, I use 46 grains of AA 2460 with the
200 FTX in my 358 Win with great success.
It meters well and I have room in the case
for a little more if needed.
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kludge
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Posted: October 13 2010 at 12:43pm | IP Logged Quote kludge

Welcome to the forum!
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kludge
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Posted: October 18 2010 at 11:04am | IP Logged Quote kludge

WARNING: The load data presented below appears to be safe in my rifle and my chamber, using my lots of components and my loading dies. Neither I nor Shooters Forum make any claims of safety or suitability for use in any conceivable application.

So my buddy got back from his hunting trip to Kansas and started working on his loads. His rifle is nearly identical to mine, but is a Model 16 (stainless). No need going into details, the results speak for themselves. He's using 200gr Interlock SP and IMR4895. 46.0gr = 2370fps, 48.0gr = 2490fps, 50gr = 2560fps



Anyway, funny story, I'm at home looking through my scope and notice that the crosshairs aren't quite straight. As I'm taking a second look at a photo of when the rifle was first finished I notice that the scope has moved about 2.5" to the front. Then I remembered at the range I was having a hard time getting into the rifle and thinking, "this isn't going to be any fun with a thick hunting coat."

Oh well, this time I put lock-tite on the screws.
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Ham Gunner
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Posted: October 18 2010 at 5:50pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

A 200gr. bullet at 2,500fps should be a great meat getter. Especially if one can shoot groups like that in the field. Nice.

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L.F.Combs
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Posted: October 19 2010 at 9:03am | IP Logged Quote L.F.Combs

Nice job grouping nice work...

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peanut
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Posted: October 26 2010 at 4:44pm | IP Logged Quote peanut

Kludge have you used any remington 200gr core-lok bullets yet.I have a 358wssm barrel 26" on the encore platform, nosler 225 accubonds shooting inch groups at 100yds with a 2" sight in at 100yds.Shoots dead on at 200yds. I'm going to try the 200gr. hornady interlocks an experiment with the 200gr. core-loks. PEANUT

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kludge
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Posted: October 27 2010 at 11:51am | IP Logged Quote kludge

I have only 3 bullets right now 180gr SSP, 200gr FTX, 225gr SGK. I have 20 SGK left and that will have to get me through hunting season this year. I'm going to try one more powder, can't decide if it'll be IMR4895 or IMR4064.

Maybe next year I'll try another bullet. Hornadys are bit less expensive than Sierras.

What is your twist rate and what powder are you using?

BTW, welcome to the forum!
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peanut
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Posted: October 27 2010 at 4:28pm | IP Logged Quote peanut

Kludge my twist rate is 1-14. My powder is H-4895, charge wgt. is 46.0,i trim my cases to 1.615" and my col is 2.650" for 225 grain Nosler Accubond energy at 100 yards is 2640 , at 200yards its 2200,300yards its1827.
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kludge
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Posted: November 03 2010 at 2:04pm | IP Logged Quote kludge

Thanks, peanut. That would mean you are getting ~2500fps at the muzzle? That is very impressive! I had an impression from the get go that H4895 would be the right powder... darn HazMat fees...

WARNING: The load data presented below appears to be safe in my rifle and my chamber, using my lots of components and my loading dies. Neither I nor Handloads.com make any claims of safety or suitability for use in any conceivable application.

OK, another range session... good news and bad news...

Bad news is I arrived without my shell holder and couldn't do any loading at the range. Good news is that I loaded up some rounds to test a couple days before. Bad news is that IMR 4064 didn't give much speed, 1800fps w/225gr SGK and 41gr for the start and and 2167fps with 46gr, even though the top load was half way up the neck and compressed, probably could have taken more without pressure. Good news is the accuracy was stellar. The middle three shots were touching, then moved the scope 4 clicks to the left and the top two shots went into the same hole. If I had left the scope alone it would have been a 5-shot group of roughly 1/2".

Bad news is I'm running out of SGK bullets and time. I went ahead and ordered more SGK's and some 200gr Interlocks (not FTX). So now I have to decide if I have more time to try IMR 4895 or just go with the BL-C(2) load (not happy with the temperature sensitivity), and finalize the setting on my scope. I'm really liking the IMR 4895 results my buddy had.

Gun season start in a week and a half, and I **need** another range trip!

Edited by kludge on November 03 2010 at 2:16pm
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