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greg bayes
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 1:22pm | IP Logged Quote greg bayes

Hello All!     45 Colt- 280RCBS-SAA-SWC.   I am looking for a load with this bullet,with Blue Dot( alliant)powder at about 950--1000FPS. and stay under 20,000cup in a S&W Mountain Gun, I do not want to go HOTTER in this revolver!! Is this possible?? I am trying 12.0 grs. of Blue dot- ww case--CCI LP Mag.primer. hav'nt cronoed yet, will have to see how it works out.   Greg Bayes from Kentucky.

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joed
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 3:30pm | IP Logged Quote joed

That would be an interesting load in a .45 Colt.   One of the reasons I got rid
of mine was I really did not like the idea of 8.0 gr of Unique in that huge
case.   I could find no loads that filled the case to a reasonable level with any
powders listed in my manuals.

I have no manuals that show bd in this cartridge for replicas or Colt SAA.
They show it for the Ruger and heavier guns though and your load sounds
promising.   Now I'm wondering how 2400 would work?

Hope your MG is more accurate then mine.   Mine was a shotgun, another
reason I abandoned the .45 Colt.

Edited by joed on February 16 2011 at 4:04pm
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Ham Gunner
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 6:01pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

My hunting load with that big RCBS bullet is 16.4gr. Lil'Gun with WLP primer. This load is very accurate in my New Service Colt and is approaching 20,000cup. It clocks 935fps out of a 5 1/2" barrel. I think that with Bluedot, you will probably reach your pressure limit before the velocity is up where you would like it to be, but it may very well produce some accuracy. I did not work up that powder. But using 2400, I found that it would not settle down and get accurate until it was hotter than I was wanting for my New Service. 2400 accuracy would be great if the gun could handle 25-30,000cup at somewhere near 17-18gr. 2400. Most of my shooting is done with 8.8gr. Unique and a 250gr. Lyman 454424 bullet at 915fps.

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STCM(SW)
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 6:22pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

"Hope your MG is more accurate then mine.   Mine was a shotgun, another reason I abandoned the .45 Colt."

You should have never given up.
Maybe Trail Boss would fill the case the way you wanted.

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greg bayes
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 6:58pm | IP Logged Quote greg bayes

Joed. my old load from 20 years ago was 260 lyman Keith with 13.0 grs. of old Blue Dot at 1050 (cronographed). in a S&W 25-5- 8&3/8" pinned bl. It was accurate and worked well on deer. Dont know the pressure on that load but i figured it about 20,000- 21,000psi. guy's THANKS for your input, i appreciate it.   Greg Bayes from Kentucky

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nhblaze
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Posted: February 17 2011 at 5:57am | IP Logged Quote nhblaze

welcome greg

One of my favorite 45 Colt load is a 265 LSWC KT
11.8 grs of Blue Dot and a CCI 300

By Alliant's own site ;

A 250 LSWC with a CCI 300 and a MAX load of 12.9
Blue Dot and this is a standard pressure load

accuracy problems with a 45 Colt ?
you need a Ruger    





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joed
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Posted: February 17 2011 at 7:17am | IP Logged Quote joed

nhblaze wrote:
welcome greg

accuracy problems with a 45 Colt ?
you need a Ruger    

Funny you should bring this up.   I actually had two S&W revolvers chambered in .45 Colt. The first was a 625 MG and the second was a 25-5.

The 25-5 I purchased from someone on the S&W forum that was trying to sell it.   The owner had invested in having the throats reamed and the forcing cone recut and used it for target shooting.   Not one of the idiots on that forum wanted the gun complaining how it wasn't factory anymore.   I was the moron that bought that gun.

It was the most accurate revolver I ever had the pleasure to own or fire.   No matter what I shot along side of it the 25-5 always shot smaller groups. And this was a .45 Colt, something that I was always taught is not accurate.   

Very stupidly I sold the 25-5 for some reason and kept the 625 MG.   The MG was just not accurate.   I bet if the forcing cone were recut and the the throats reamed that may have changed.
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J Miller
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Posted: February 20 2011 at 12:30pm | IP Logged Quote J Miller

Many S&W 25- whatevers suffer from over sized throats. These can measure out as far as .457+ and it's virtually impossible to get them to shoot accurately with normal bullets.
My own 25-5 has such throats. If I acquire bullets sized .457" it WILL shoot very accurately. Otherwise it's a worthless leading fiend.

Greg,
You are wise to limit your loads to the 20,000 PSI level. However even that can be detrimental to the longevity of the S&W. The cylinder is plenty strong enough, but the 100+ year old design action is just not durable with high pressure loads.   My gun has around 8K rounds through it with only a hand full going over 15K PSI and it's suffered quite a bit of wear. The biggest problem is they tend to develop end shake quickly.

JoeD,
You make great Keith bullets, but your paranoia about the size of the .45 Colt cases amazes me. There is nothing wrong with 8.0grs of Unique in that case. It is a time proven factory level load that provides plenty of accuracy potential in guns that are accurate.
I've been shooting such loads for nearly 40 years and this large case, small powder charge thing is a non issue.

Joe

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Posted: February 20 2011 at 8:10pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

"You are wise to limit your loads to the 20,000 PSI level. However even that can be detrimental to the longevity of the S&W. The cylinder is plenty strong enough, but the 100+ year old design action is just not durable with high pressure loads."

OK, then explain to me how my M29-2 takes hot .44 Magnum loads for 40+ years with now problems.
Same "N" frame as the M25 designed back then.......

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blackhawkacp
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Posted: February 21 2011 at 6:12am | IP Logged Quote blackhawkacp

I have always thought of blue dot as more of a magnum powder. I'm thinking of pressure that it likes is in the the 30,000 range. In my experience it becomes less consistent as the pressure requirements are reduced. Your experience may be different.

I took apart one Winchester factory Colt 45 and it had some powder very similar to w231 in it. They all went bang perfectly. It was 90% air.

W231 may work. Unique would work.

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J Miller
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Posted: February 21 2011 at 9:23am | IP Logged Quote J Miller

STCM(SW) wrote:
"You are wise to limit your loads to the 20,000 PSI level. However even that can be detrimental to the longevity of the S&W. The cylinder is plenty strong enough, but the 100+ year old design action is just not durable with high pressure loads."

OK, then explain to me how my M29-2 takes hot .44 Magnum loads for 40+ years with now problems.
Same "N" frame as the M25 designed back then.......


Same frame - yes, different heat treating.    As a side note I have a friend that has a 29-2 that's not much older than my 25-5 and is ready for an overhaul.

Some where in the mid 80s I think S&W began making the 29s with the endurance package. They realized the old design needed help in the durability department. So they changed some things.   That costs money, they wouldn't have done it if it wasn't needed.   

One other thing; do you shoot mostly single action or mostly double action?   It does make a difference in how they wear.

Joe

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J Miller
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Posted: February 21 2011 at 9:33am | IP Logged Quote J Miller

blackhawkacp wrote:
I have always thought of blue dot as more of a magnum powder. I'm thinking of pressure that it likes is in the the 30,000 range. In my experience it becomes less consistent as the pressure requirements are reduced. Your experience may be different.

I took apart one Winchester factory Colt 45 and it had some powder very similar to w231 in it. They all went bang perfectly. It was 90% air.

W231 may work. Unique would work.


I have found the same thing about Bluedot, 2400, IMR 4227 as well. They all have their sweet spots and generally that is at a higher pressure than standard .45 Colt loads run.   I reserve powders such as those for warmer loads used in my Ruger BH.
For Colt level loads I use faster powders such as 231, IMR PB, Unique, and other powders in that category.

I've done the same thing and I'm betting that is 231 in there. I have read (on this forum I think) that Winchester uses the same powders in their ammo that they sell to reloaders.   If what we found in the .45 Colt cases is not 231, then I'd like to know what it is.

Many years ago I bought a box of REM-UMC .45 Colt ammo.
They were loaded in balloon head cases with 250gr bullets.
Out of curiosity I pulled down one of the cartridges to check what powder might have been used.   It held 5.0grs of powder that looked identical to Bullseye. Over the powder was a thin card wad holding it against the primer.

Well over 90% of the case empty.   I'm not sure about the accuracy of this ammo cos I never did shoot any of it.

If I ever find another box perhaps I will.

Joe

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greg bayes
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Posted: March 10 2011 at 10:02am | IP Logged Quote greg bayes

Hey everybody, I havn't been able to get out to the range ( Knob Creek Range ) lately because of high back water from the Ohio River flooding out the bridge going to Knob Creek. Don't know when this problem will leave, but i hope its soon, but from the looks of things it may be a couple of weeks or so. Knob Creek is the closest place to shoot and do cronograph work.   see you'all later Greg Bayes from Ky.   

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greg bayes
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 6:54pm | IP Logged Quote greg bayes

Hey everybody, FINALY !! Water down, bridge clear, finaly got out to Knob Creek Range, Cronographed my 45 Colt load of 12.0 grs. of Alliant Blue Dot( cci LP)winch. case, in a Smith X Wesson Mtn. Gun, With a RCBS 280 SSA. bullet. M.Vel. 853--- SD. 30.5 ALSO !!!!! in a new Ruger Redhawk with a 4 inch BL. M.Vel. 901---- SD 11.1   All from 5 shot strings. Crono distance 10 feet, Partly cly. 75 deg. The Ruger seems to be a bit faster than my Smith. Accuracy wise Smith 2.5inchs at 25yds.(5 shots) Ruger 1.75inchs. at 25 yds. ( 5 shots ). May try to go to 12.50grs. of blue dot, and see what happens. Hope the rains hold off for a few days, I want to do some more experimenting(shooting). Greg Bayes from Ky.

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fredj338
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Posted: May 20 2011 at 10:20pm | IP Logged Quote fredj338

I ran some 300grLFP o/ 12gr of BD in my RBH 4 5/8". It gets 940fps & the cases fall out easily. I really like the RCB270, but it cast closer to 285gr from a 50/50 ww/lead alloy. Very accurate o/ 16gr of 2400, also low pressure. I had the mold modified to throw a 270gr cup point, expands great @ low vel cast soft.


Edited by fredj338 on May 20 2011 at 10:20pm
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Posted: May 21 2011 at 6:05am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

I'm really liking bludot in the 45 colt and the 44 special and 38-40

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Posted: May 22 2011 at 5:37am | IP Logged Quote blackhawkacp

Hi Greg,
I wouldn't have guessed that blue dot would work very
well for what you are doing. Just shows.

I tried blue dot in some auto hand guns and couldn't get
the consistency or accuracy that I wanted. I heard about
a warning about using it in one load in 357 and gave a
full jug away.

Win 231 and Trail boss both work good for me with 45 colt
200 grain. The 231 doesn't seem position sensitive. I
doubt if I am shooting them at 20,000 psi though.

Lovesrugers seems to be able to calculate pressre via
loads.

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