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tbhmech
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Posted: June 09 2011 at 5:32pm | IP Logged Quote tbhmech

Hello and good evening all , i am new to reloading and have a question for you i want to load 380 acp ammo i have the die set and i am using a Hornady Lock and Load progressive press i called Hornady the other day and asked the tech that answered the phone about not seeing a hornady 380 taper crimp die and he told he has never used one and he has reloaded countless 380 acp rounds , so my question to you all is do i need to taper crimp a 380 acp round i thought you had to taper crimp so the the ammo would load right in semi auto hand guns , and my next question is see other companys make a taper crimp die ,, but i reload 9mm luger and i was wondering if that taper crimp die would work for a 380 acp ,,any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated ,,thank you ....Tim
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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: June 09 2011 at 6:13pm | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

      I can't help you directly as I use RCBS taper crimp dies that seem to work well for me. I will tell you this. 380 can be picky in the brass in certain brands seem to be thinner than other brands. They will at times bulge at the base of the bullet for no real reason. I have given up on these brass cases and had little problems after that. From this forum I have learned taper crimp is better in some rounds and not needed in others. Semi autos seem to like it better in general. Your press will work with RCBS if you decide to go with the taper crimp and I am sure there are other brands that will also work in your press. Hope this helps a little.

Craig

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winwun
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Posted: June 10 2011 at 3:55am | IP Logged Quote winwun

Ever so slightly off topic, and I apologize, but has anyone ever tried taking an extra .380 barrel and reaming it out to 9 X 19 and then seating the bullet enough deeper in the 9 X 19 to acomodate the magazine ?

This would make loading so much easier -- 1 less extra set of dies, 1 less bullet to stock, easier brass to get hold of, etc . . .

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The_Shadow
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Posted: June 10 2011 at 7:26am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Tim Welcome to the forum.

The 380 being shorter than the 9mm (9x19) might not allow you enough reach depending on the die set.

If you load the rounds and the bullet remain tight (can't push it inside the case against a hard surface) enough to not allow bullet movement you should be OK!

All you really want is for the case walls to be straight and true and the case mouth closed up to remove any flairing by the expander. Remember that the 380 head spaces off the case mouth as do many semi auto rounds.

Best regards!

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Rocky Raab
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Posted: June 10 2011 at 8:37am | IP Logged Quote Rocky Raab

To the best of my knowledge, ALL die sets for semi-auto pistol rounds come with a taper crimp/seater die. So there'd be no need for a separate crimp die unless you want to do seating and crimping as separate steps.

Otherwise, just set the die up to seat to the desired OAL and remove any belling, as the astute Mr Shadow just described.

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winwun
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Posted: June 10 2011 at 9:07am | IP Logged Quote winwun

Would anyone suppose that a lighter-than-adequate crimp could let bullets in the mag jump forward due to recoil and maybe wind up a little too long ?

In one of my black powder pistols, if I don't use the right ball, the recoil can cause the bullets to jump forward enough to jam the cylinder.

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Rocky Raab
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Posted: June 10 2011 at 9:23am | IP Logged Quote Rocky Raab

No. In a semi-auto, the bullet gets jammed back into the case both in the magazine under recoil and when hitting the feed ramp. It is extremely dangerous because the greatly decreased powder space can raise pressures drastically.

Revolver bullets creep forward in recoil because the case is held by the rim; the case is carried back by recoil while the bullet's mass resists that movement. In a pistol, the case is not restrained in the magazine, and the gun slams back into it during recoil.

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blackhawkacp
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 8:56am | IP Logged Quote blackhawkacp

Hi Rocky, I have seen both situations and never really
thought about why the revolver round gets longer and the
Semi-auto round gets shorter. Thanks for explaining.

I reload all my 380s in a single stage press using
"Slicks" recipe of 3 grains of Unique.


Rocky Raab wrote:
No. In a semi-auto, the bullet gets
jammed back into the case both in the magazine under
recoil and when hitting the feed ramp. It is extremely
dangerous because the greatly decreased powder space can
raise pressures drastically.

Revolver bullets creep forward in recoil because the case
is held by the rim; the case is carried back by recoil
while the bullet's mass resists that movement. In a
pistol, the case is not restrained in the magazine, and
the gun slams back into it during recoil.


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turbo1889
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Posted: June 12 2011 at 1:22pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

In response to the OP’s question:

If you are loading jacketed instead of cast and put hardly any bell on the case mouth you can get away with no crimp on the 380. I’ve done it, with jacketed bullet loads you can get a tight enough grab with neck tension alone to prevent bullet movement under 380 recoil levels. I still like to apply a light taper crimp myself though. With cast loads crimp is pretty mandatory since the coefficient of friction between lead and brass is much lower then between brass and jacket metal, and that isn’t even taking into account the lube that is used in cast lead boolit loads.


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winwun wrote:
Ever so slightly off topic, and I apologize, but has anyone ever tried taking an extra .380 barrel and reaming it out to 9 X 19 and then seating the bullet enough deeper in the 9 X 19 to acomodate the magazine ?

This would make loading so much easier -- 1 less extra set of dies, 1 less bullet to stock, easier brass to get hold of, etc . . .


Theoretically this would work, until someone accidently loaded a round in such a gun that was operating at full 9x19 pressure levels which will turn a gun built to handle 380 pressure levels into scrap metal. For safety reasons I wouldn’t recommend it.


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About reloading 380 with 9x19 loading dies:

This has been done and can be done with good results. This is how I know that you can get away with no crimp with jacketed bullet loads for the 380. My 9x19 die set got everything done except for the crimp stage. I have since purchased a 380 die set but I still use the 9x19 sizing die since it doesn’t squeeze the 380 cases down as much as the 380 size die which works my brass less, eliminates “wasp waist” shaped cartridges, and gives me slightly better accuracy since the resulting loads are a tighter fit in my chamber and aren’t loose and sloppy in the chamber. My current loading set-up for 380 is as follows: 9x19 sizing die / 380 powder through case mouth bell die / 9x19 bullet seating/crimping die that seats bullet only / 380 bullet seating/crimping die adjusted to crimp only with the seating punch backed off. Four dies in a four stage turret press with a Pro Auto Disk powder measure


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Bullet set-back due to no or too little crimp can’t happen with full case compressed powder loads:

And such loads are possible in the 380 cartridge. Depending on bullet weight and seating depth Blue Dot, AA#9, & Lil-Gun are excellent choices for building such loads in the 380 cartridge. That is how I loaded cast lead boolits in the 380 before I purchased a 380 die set when I was still using my 9x19 dies which wouldn’t allow me to crimp. I continue to load these kinds of loads to this day because they are about as close to “idiot proof” as your going to get in reloading. It’s pretty hard to make a hot load when you are using a powder that you can’t physically get enough powder into the case to make a hot load.

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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: June 13 2011 at 6:00pm | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

      One thing that hasn't been talked about is the fact that 380 case dimensions are .373 at the case mouth and .374 at the base. The dimensions for 9mm is .380 at the case mouth and .391 at the base. It would seem to me that the 9mm die might not size the 380 small enough to fit in a tight 380 chamber. When I re-size 9mm there are sometimes 380 brass mixed in and you can tell right away that you have a 380 in the die as it seem to "fall into the die". This may not be a problem if you re-size and it chambers correctly but you may have accuracy issues as it's not correctly re-sized.

Craig

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