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357_Sig
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Posted: May 28 2012 at 8:13pm | IP Logged Quote 357_Sig

I have been reloading for about a year. Right now I am reloading 11 calibers. My dad decided to by a FN 5.7 pistol. His thinking when he bought it was "I will have the boy load it for me." So I have been researching for about 6 hours now. Reading articles, visting other forums.. Reading reading reading. Just so we are straight, I am not asking you guys HOW to reload this. What I do want to ask you is how are you expirences with it. Ive been doing 4 rifle calibers with the bottlenecked cases. SO would this be similar only on a smaller scale. Or would I be better off starting with a bottle necked pistol case. Whats your input? My dad is getting nervous he wont have ammo to shoot it. We looked at 9 retailers and 4 online retailers and everyone is out of this ammo. My goal here is find out everything I can about this little round before I commit to and start.

Edited by 357_Sig on May 28 2012 at 8:14pm
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Papa Bear
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Posted: May 28 2012 at 8:54pm | IP Logged Quote Papa Bear

I don't reload for one but my assumption is you would proceed as if it's a tiny rifle case, at least it's what I would do.

By the way, if you need brass let me know. I have some once fired range finds.

Have you found load data?

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357_Sig
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Posted: May 28 2012 at 9:38pm | IP Logged Quote 357_Sig

I was thinking that a tiny rifle case would be the way to go about it. I did find some load data for it on the alliant and ramshot websites. Ill find and post links if anybody is interested. And with the research I have done, it sounds like there is some data in the Lymans manual, which I dont not have yet. IM thinking sometime tomorrow, I will go pick it up. IM surprised that Hornady don't have any data in their books since one of the 2 commercially available rounds to civilians is using thier 40 gr VMax bullets.

I would be interested in the brass. Let me know what I need to do to get it to MN. Thanks Papa Bear.
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Pete D.
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 3:05am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

I have been reloading the 5.7X28 for the past six years
(maybe longer...I forget. Longer than there has been
published data.)
It is a finicky little beast. Not a beginner's cartridge.
You know your skills better than anyone and your previous
experience is a plus.
There are two elements to reloading the 5.7 that are not
immediately obvious. One is that the cases are coated with
a polymer.
The other is that the shoulder of the case moves quite a bit
during firing and must be reset upon resizing.
Both of these things are related to the delayed blowback
operation of the pistol. The cartridge operates at Max
pressure of 50kpsi. In order to allow the pressure to drop,
the unlocking of the action is delayed. This delay is
effected by the coating on the case which "grabs" the
chamber walls and causes the case to stay in the chamber
a tad longer than it otherwise would. The delay also causes
the cases to stretch a bit, blowing the shoulder forward.
I have found that it is very important to remove all slack
from the press/die/shellholder combo in order to resize
the cases properly.
My propellants of choice are Hodgdon's HS6 and
Ramshot's TrueBlue. Care must be taken about charging since the
difference between minimum and maximum is only seven tenths of
a grain.
Pete

Pic: This is five consecutive shots from the 5-7 pistol using reloads. 100 yards. 40 grain Sierra and 5.5 grains TrueBlue.



Edited by Pete D. on May 29 2012 at 3:47am


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The_Shadow
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 6:48am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

The FN 5.7 is simular to the 9x25Dillon (10mm necked to 9mm). The neck tention and head spacing are the critical part to the operations...

I don't know what dies you have for the 5.7, but the Dillon dies were my answer to the 357Sig and 9x25Dillon for handloading these cartridges...Why do I say this?
The Dillon dies have dual carbide sizing sections which make for easier and better reconditioning of the brass.

There is a company called Elite Ammo that has some quality 5.7x28 ammo he wasactive on the 10mmTalk forum.
http://www.eliteammunition.net/home.html

He may have some ammo in stock...

Best of luck getting the 5.7's loaded up!

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357_Sig
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 8:01am | IP Logged Quote 357_Sig

Thanks Pete. I was thinkin of using the Ramshot True blue myself. I have already decided to do this one at a time just like a rifle. I have a Lee Turret press and a Lee single stage. The Single stage will be used in this process. I have also decided to set my pwoder thrower to lets say .3 grains less than I want and then use a powder trickler on a balance beam scale. MOre time consuming? Yes, maybe even a little over kill, but when the starting to max charge spread is less than a grain, you cant be to careful, IMHO. My next question about the brass. So they have this coating on them. From what I have read, this coating is for functioning in the PS90 rifle. How is this affected in the handgun? Ive got some more to add to this, but my dispatcher says I have to go to work.
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Pete D.
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 8:04am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

And don't let anyone tell you that "it's just a glorified .22 magnum." It ain't. That load above chrono's at over 1800 fps from a five inch pistol barrel. The .22 magnum will go about 50 fps faster - when fired from a rifle.
Ammo by Elite Ammunition will produce velocities over 2000 fps from the pistol with the 40 grain bullet.
Pete

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Pete D.
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 10:45am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

The pistol and the PS90 both use delayed blowback. The coating is an
element in that system. On my cases it started to wear on the neck
and shoulder at about the fifth reload.

Pete

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357_Sig
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 11:27am | IP Logged Quote 357_Sig

Thanks again Pete. That's some good info.

Shadow, I haven't bought any dies at this point. Right now I'm
collecting components and researching. Trying to learn everything I
can about before I dive into it. Will the dillion dies work on a lee
press?
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turbo1889
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 2:13pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I load for the 5.7x28 but I don't reload for the five-
seven hand-gun or P90. I have a custom varmint rifle
chambered for the cartridge which gives me (in my
experience) superior performance compared to both the 22-
Hornet which was nothing but a migraine level headache
for me and the 22-mag. rim-fire which isn't a re-loadable
cartridge.

Not to mention that I can pick up range brass for free
off the floor of my local shooting range for the 5.7x28
something I can't do for the 22-Hornet and which is
pointless to do for the 22-mag. rim-fire.

The very first thing I would have to say about the
cartridge is that it is very important to use quality
lube on the cases; imperial sizing wax would be my
suggestion and I imagine (but cannot personally confirm)
that a carbide or titanium-nitrate coated sizing die
would be very beneficial as well for this cartridge. To
my knowledge no-one including Dillon currently makes a
carbide sizing die for this cartridge (although it is
certainly technically possible to do so) and only CH-4D
sells a titanium-nitrate sizing die as a custom order
item. There is hope that sooner or later Hornady will
come out with a titanium-nitrate die set for this
cartridge but as of yet that hope has not materialized
into reality.

Basically, the problem is that the shoulder is blown
forward with the blow back action five-seven pistols and
P90 personal defense weapon and this considerably
increases the amount of force needed to re-size the fired
brass. This becomes a problem in that there is minimal
brass in the head around the primer pocket and unless
care is taken to ensure quality lube is used in sizing
the force required to re-set the shoulder of the brass
will result in crushing down the base of the brass in the
shell holder in the extraction groove area where the
brass is thinnest and/or crushing the rim forward if the
primer hole is too large in the shell holder. Early
shell holders for the cartridge used a standard large or
small primer size hole in them which aggravated problems
with the rim being forced forward into the extraction
groove. More recently shell holders have been made with
a smaller then normal size hole in them which is just
barely big enough for the small size primer to be punched
out through it by the decapping pin of the sizing die and
this illuminates the problem with the rim being forced
forward since the bottom of the case is much better
supported and the shell holder isn't pushing on just the
rim on the up-stroke but if low quality lube is used
(think one-shot spray on lube and similar) you can still
crush the entire head of the case down shorter in the
extractor groove while sizing.

For me this is only a problem on my first sizing of range
pick up brass since my varmint rifle is a solid bolt
action with a tight chamber so the shoulder isn't blown
forward on my gun on subsequent firings. But if you are
loading for a five-seven then your going to have to deal
with the issue every time you size the brass. I strongly
suggest making sure you have a good shell holder made
specifically for the 5.7x28 cartridge that has the
smaller hole in it and grabs the rim correctly. My shell
holder is a custom job but it is my understanding that
currently Redding is making a shell holder that is set-up
correctly, specifically, and only for the 5.7x28 brass
head including the use of a smaller size hole in the
shell holder that allows only de-priming and you need a
second regular universal hole size shell holder to re-
prime the shells. I am using a Lee 25-ACP shell holder
unit for that.

As far as the powder charge goes. As you noticed with
Western Powders load data (the parent company of both
Accurate and Ramshot Powders) the difference between a
start and max load is very small and the load data will
list not only a specific bullet weight and minimum COAL
but also will list different load data for different
specific bullets and will tell you to work up the load in
0.1 grain increments. Absolutely none of that is a joke
or being over cautious on their part. Those loads use
faster burning powders that are specifically intended to
get the most out of the short barrel length of the five
seven pistol. You can go outside of book load data and
use slower burning powders then they list and get better
results with better case fill in a carbine length barrel
like my varmint rifle has. I'm using basically all the
various powders that are in the burn rate range that is
also usable in the 410-bore shotgun, Accurate #9, Ramshot
Enforcer, Accurate 4100, Alliant 300-MP, Lil-Gun, Alliant
2400, IMR-4227, H-4227, etc . . . The resulting loads
are less finicky with a wider range and give me better
ballistics in my longer barrel. For a pistol length
barrel you are probably best off with the faster burning
powders listed in the Western load data.

Edited by turbo1889 on May 29 2012 at 2:13pm


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Papa Bear
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 6:52pm | IP Logged Quote Papa Bear

357_Sig, I'll try to get out and check what I have. It might be next weekend since tomorrow is my Monday and I'm scheduled for 49 hours over the next 4 days. I believe I have about a quart ziplock worth, so probably several hundred at least. Like I said, they are range pick ups from guys who "fire and forget" their brass. Some have gone through the tumbler, some haven't.

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Pete D.
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Posted: May 29 2012 at 7:15pm | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Turbo 1889: Great post.

Pete

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357_Sig
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Posted: May 30 2012 at 7:53am | IP Logged Quote 357_Sig

Turbo1889: thanks for that buddy. Thats is really great info.

Papa bear: take your time. Right now I am just trying to learn about this finky litte cartridge. Just startting to aquire some components. Im in no hurry at this moment. IM not going to start with this one until I have learned everything and read every post, article or what ever I cand find about reloading this. I appreciate it just the same.

Edited by 357_Sig on May 30 2012 at 7:54am
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The_Shadow
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Posted: May 30 2012 at 9:11am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

357Sig, It looks like Dillon is making the dies for this cartridge yet...if they did the Dillon dies will work in standard reloading presses with 7/8" threads. They are a little more expensive but well worth the price when it comes to sizing the casing body and neck.

Turbo1889 +2 great write up!

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