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Yeti
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Posted: June 28 2012 at 7:00pm | IP Logged Quote Yeti

I have started loading for my new 41 mag. My first 2 powders used were Unique and 2400.

The Lyman book is significantly lower than Waters Pet Loads for 2400. The difference for top loads is 17.8 gr w cci300 for 1262 vs 19gr for
1330. I shot work up loads up to 18gr and never found the recoiled to be objectionable. The primers are flattening but no worse than the
starting loads for either Unique or 2400. I am not seeing any case bulge like I see when loading 357. All cases are ejecting easily. Unfortunately
I have not shot any factory to get a base line on case head expansion or velocity. I just hate to waste money on factory loads.

So in my inexperience with loading handgun calibers, especially magnums, what words of wisdom can you give me?

I am going to get some of the 230gr Keith bullets from LAH. Does anyone have any load data they care to share for that bullet?

Thanks!

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Posted: June 29 2012 at 7:13am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Yeti, good luck with your loading for the 41 mag. You know, Alliant never did come out and say why not to use Blue Dot in the 41 Mag. BTW, It used to be a very popular powder to load for the cartridge.

I load many 10mm and 44 mag with Blue Dot stuffed loads and these cartridges do fall in the volume of powder that would have benn used in the 41's. So I have to wonder if brass cases for the 41's caused an issue?
Did some particular manufacture or brand of brass not meet proper specifications and cause issues?

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TexIndian
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote TexIndian

A max load of 2400 shoots great groups in mine with the 210gr Hornady XTP bullets, but it's not a lot of fun to shoot. I took down a white-tail at about 90 yds with that load once (8.5" Redhawk w/ scope on a rest). Lighter loads with some 215gr LWC are much more fun - 8.0gr of Unique - but I've never tried to shoot groups with them, just plinking.

I recently picked up a Model 59 from Paul but haven't tried anything yet but some loads he threw in. I'm about to try some silhouette shooting at the local club with lead bullets through a Marlin 1894 Cowboy lever gun, so I feel some load testing coming on. I'll let you know what I find. I've got to where I avoid the Dot powders because they're so dirty so I may try to use something else besides Unique. I think I have a can of AA#7 on hand but may try some #9 too.

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Ominivision1
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 11:42am | IP Logged Quote Ominivision1

Blue Dot has been my favorite powder in .41 mag for over 20yrs. I had several Emails with the powers at Alliant when the warnings came out. Seems that a lot of people were using the data for the 220gr Lyman 410459 for ANY bullet 210gr or better , even jacketed. The Lyman 410459 Keith-style bullet has a long nose and short shank. And some recent lots of BD were a tick faster than the norm. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists the max load with the 410459 as 16grs. This is WAY over max for any 210gr jacketed bullet. But some loaders think any bullet weighing anywhere near 220 is OK. They look for the highest load regardless of bullet. They think bullet weight is the only factor. And since a 210 weighs less than the 220gr 401459 , they think it's OK. And the 215gr bevel based SWC offered by many cast bullet suppliers has a longer shank than the 410459. This led to compressed loads with other bullets , frequent high pressures and a few blown-up revolvers.

I also think this may be part of the reason Lyman discontinued this mould. Their 215gr gas checked SWC , similar in shank length to the common 215gr bevel based SWC , has a max charge of 14.5.
Again , this is an older book/data so charges should be reduced by at least 10% and worked up carefully!

I have since dropped my Blue Dot charge to 15gr with the 410459. I was loading 16.5grs of older lots with no high pressure.

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twillis
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 12:36pm | IP Logged Quote twillis

I am fond of 17 to 18 grs of AA#9 with LAH's bullet. I have also gone as high as 19 grs of 2400 with that bullets. Work into those carefully.

I use the same AA #9 powder charge with 210 gr jacketed as well.

My experience with LAH's 230gr is that it likes some speed. I have not had good luck with it at 1000 to 1100 fps but it is super once you get it above 1200 fps. This has been my experience with 6 different 41 pistols. (Taurus Tracker 425, 3 different Redhawks, a Blackhawk and a S&W 657)



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Yeti
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 1:41pm | IP Logged Quote Yeti

Thanks for the help!

Twillis,

Any leading issues with that bullet at those speeds? If I can get the speed up
there without leading I will definitely try it.

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setsuo
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 4:15pm | IP Logged Quote setsuo

I am a Blue Dot fan

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twillis
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 6:19pm | IP Logged Quote twillis

I don't think I have any leading issues. After 100 or so rounds there is some leading but I just scrub it out and keep on going. It does depend on which alloy you are using too. If you are getting Lynn's hard alloy there is less. The w/w alloy leads more. I have never had enough to call it a problem however.

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Yeti
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Posted: June 29 2012 at 7:52pm | IP Logged Quote Yeti

Thanks!

I took the 2400 load up to 18.4 grains. It is definitely starting to get my
attention in the recoil department. The good news is it appears to have
potential for accuracy. I am going to load some more to do a final test with
the crony and some accuracy testing.

I look forward to loading some hard cast for the first time.

Edited by Yeti on June 29 2012 at 7:52pm


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336A
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Posted: June 30 2012 at 12:47am | IP Logged Quote 336A

Good morning Yeti, that is a nice Bh you have there. I got one just like it last year but with the newwer plastic cheese grater stocks ouch. I have gone up to 18.5gr of 2400 with the Sierra and Hornady 210gr bullets. The Sierra hits to the same POI as my 8.5gr Unique load with a 215gr SWC. The Hornady hit a tad higher than the Sierra bullet.

I also purchased some 220gr H&G#58 Keith bullets from Montana Bullet Works. The listed weight is 215gr but mine are closer to 220gr. I loaded those up to Elmer's old load of 19gr of 2400. Talk about fire and brimstone that load hurts and is all I ever care to shoot from that gun. 18.5gr with the same bullet was a bit more managable and hit to the same POI as my Unique load once again. Both loads are scary accurate as is the 8.5gr Unique load. so to keep life simple I settled on 18.5gr of 2400 and 8.5gr of Unique for the cast bullets.

I'm not sure what the 2400 load chronos as I don't have one but I'm not to worried about it either. I enjoy the 8.5gr Unique load and that is pretty close to 1100fps. I also picked up some of Creekers 230gr bullets but have yet to load any up. I plan on sticking some on top of Unique and trying them out.

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Yeti
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Posted: July 01 2012 at 6:03am | IP Logged Quote Yeti

At 18.4 gr of 2400 the gas flash was substantial. When I can get to it I
will post a video shot by a friend.

I can't wait to crony the load and figure out the ballistics. I also look
forward to loading the Keith bullets, though I doubt I'll make it up to 19
gr based on everyone's description of the load.

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336A
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Posted: July 28 2012 at 8:29am | IP Logged Quote 336A

Wow I forgot all about this thread. Yeti I forgot to ask you what bullet your using for the above loads. I'm not sure if Keith's load of 20.0gr of 2400 with the H&G #258 is still within safe working pressures or not. But I can tell you that 19.0gr 2400 and that bullet is one very obnoxious load indeed. I'm very curious as to what 18.5gr 2400 and that bullet will chrono at.

I have never used 2400 or the H&G #258 bullet before until recently so I'm calling 19.0gr quits. However I did notive that at 19.0 2400 and that bullet the powder is not compressed. The reverse is true however or at least I believe it is when using the Sierra bullet. I don't know if this means that I could safely work up to 20.gr 2400 or not with the H&G bullet.

With as much recoil as the 19.0gr load generates from the 4 5/8" barrel I can't see how some used to use the 20.0gr data. I have noticed though that John Taffin used 19.5gr 2400 with the Lyman version of the Kieth bullet. But I don't know what the time frame was when that article was published. So just to be on the safe side I've decided to stay on the safe side with 19.0gr 2400 as the MAX load for me.

Not only that 18.5gr is not quite as obnoxious and I don't have to change the sights from the Unique load. So really going over 19.0gr is a moot point for me. Just thinking about trying 19.0gr of 2400 with LAHs' 230gr Kieth bullet that twillis mentioned starts to make my hand tremble.

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Posted: July 28 2012 at 10:41am | IP Logged Quote setsuo

Yeti is using some of Creeker's beautiful 232 gr swc some of the best
looking bullets out there

Edited by setsuo on July 28 2012 at 10:42am


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Yeti
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Posted: July 29 2012 at 9:43am | IP Logged Quote Yeti

So far I have worked them up to 18.4 gr of 2400 with the keith bullet.
Unfortunately my crony has not been the same since my brother in law shot
it. Out of 10 rounds fired I only got readings on two. So my guess is I am
only pushing @ 1,225 fps.

There are a couple of things I could use some input on:

First, I am loading two rounds and rotating the cylinder into position. As I
turn the cylinder to the position just prior to the firing position it starts to
bind. I am guessing the driving band of the bullet is hitting the throat of the
cylinder. As a result the base of the bullet is being pushed into the frame. I
will try seating a little deeper to see if that helps.

Second, my shots are hitting 24" low at 25 yds. How in the heck do you
adjust for that? I am going to increase the crimp and charge in hopes of
getting more speed. Maybe that will help but I can't see the poi coming up
24".

This is my first time loading cast. How to I tell if I am getting leading? What
is the best way to clean leading out of the barrel?

Thanks for your help.

Edited by Yeti on July 29 2012 at 9:44am


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Ominivision1
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Posted: July 29 2012 at 11:29am | IP Logged Quote Ominivision1

Yeti

What is the oal of the loads? And 24" low at 25 yds is
not
good. After you cast your bullets, did you size them to
your gun, also what did you use for lube?

I use alox on my cast bullets which are sized
0.001"-0.002" bigger than the groove diameter of the
bore(Not Riffling). I use an old lyman #410259 220gr
ahead of 19grs which zips along at 1250fps.

I just read the post above yours and seen you used
already made bullets. I would still measure the bullets
and slug your bore.

Edited by Ominivision1 on July 29 2012 at 11:32am


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Posted: July 29 2012 at 11:43am | IP Logged Quote 336A

Omnivision, what gun are you shooting that out of? I have no chrono but I figured that 19.0gr of 2400 would send a 220gr Keith bullet along at 1300fps at least.

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Ominivision1
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Posted: July 29 2012 at 12:59pm | IP Logged Quote Ominivision1

Mine is a Ruger new model 6 1/2" blackhawk. Recoil is
stout and it has a muzzle blast that will lay the daisy's
low, but it is accurate at 25yds averaging 2" groups
offhand and 1.75" bench, this is with no scope.



Edited by Ominivision1 on July 29 2012 at 1:00pm


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Posted: July 29 2012 at 6:47pm | IP Logged Quote twillis

Yeti,

I don't remember what gun you have. I have a Blackhawk that has short throats. It behaves exactly as you describe with some chambers binding a bit more than others when using the 230 Keith. I can usually push them in hard enough with my thumb to get the cylinder to turn freely but must be mindful to do so. BTW I don't think the bullet is being seated any deeper when I push them in I just think I am forcing them deeper into the throat. Don't have that problem with my Smith

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Yeti
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Posted: July 29 2012 at 7:12pm | IP Logged Quote Yeti

Terry,

I have a Blackhawk as well. I also found that pressing them in helped. A
couple of the chambings were so long I had to disassemble to get the
bullets out. This is my back up bear gun so having a potential cylinder jam
at the wrong time is not an option.

For this round of load work up I set the bullets as deep as I could while still
getting a roll crimp and not hitting the driving band. I think the slightly
deeper seating of the bullet may be enough to prevent binding. I'll test run
them before going to the range.

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twillis
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Posted: July 30 2012 at 9:44am | IP Logged Quote twillis

The Taurus Tracker I had a few years ago had a short cylinder. Creeker's bullet would stick out the end a bit. I shortened some case enough to get the bullet flush with the cylinder. You might consider doing the same. I doubt you would need to trim much off to accomplish what you want. Be sure to reduced the powder charge a bit till you make sure your pressure is OK. You could also have the throats lengthened a bit.

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