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hubel458
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Posted: August 22 2014 at 12:58am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 the longer one.
Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber rifled barrels.
Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break
actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.



Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled.
Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a real loose fit
in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib,
fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE brass cases. A press
in tight fit gives good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.



Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452"   45cal pistol
bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders..
With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.



For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are
strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough finish paints.
Usually need weight added for big bore use. But not too miuch..
An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being
too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and
we hold them in, with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed


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hubel458
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Posted: September 10 2014 at 1:29am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.

If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round laying on the buffs hide

next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed




I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs on big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed


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hubel458
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Posted: September 28 2014 at 2:47am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
or wide hollowpoint. .



Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going
to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the
great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.



Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases
One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt
didn't hardly expand, Sized the top and reloaded/shot again.
And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting
super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys
as a sample to show guys the case. Ed


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hubel458
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Posted: October 15 2014 at 4:23am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: November 05 2014 at 10:46am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.



Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.




Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
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hubel458
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Posted: December 14 2014 at 1:35am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....



A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed



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hubel458
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Posted: December 31 2014 at 7:31pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..



Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed

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USA Joe
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Posted: December 31 2014 at 8:10pm | IP Logged Quote USA Joe

Well what are the loads ? powder's and such ? Maybe a paper target group & picture of victim firing this cannon

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hubel458
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Posted: January 27 2015 at 10:26am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Top load with 650 gr bullet is 190 gr of H335
starting load 170gr, for lot slower use 180 gr of
RE 25 and similiar speed powders and start
load 165gr RE 25, and all the pwders in between.

Top loads in each powder are full to bottom bullet
and starting loads are about 87%, no less.
Will be posting targets and there is video on
y-tube, type in 585HE or hubel express.
More videos coming.

Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..



But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed


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hubel458
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Posted: February 13 2015 at 10:27pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases coming.

Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.



Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed



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hubel458
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Posted: March 02 2015 at 3:19am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...



Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.




Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed




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hubel458
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 1:49am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.
Enfield in back, you can see it is longer.



And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed


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hubel458
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Posted: April 21 2015 at 3:31pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

There is couple 585 videos on Swann Gunsmithing's
Facebook site;

Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1, that was done in
Australia.It was set up

for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That
gun killed the

first AUS buff, killed by a 585HE, that I posted picture
of above. You can

go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch
the test firings..

https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI
stock, with the

style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock
will be finished brown

and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed

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hubel458
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Posted: June 14 2015 at 1:34am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

One of first modern era 585 caliber wildcats, since
WW2, the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first mentioned in the fifties, It was made from BMG
brass shortened to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585" actually if cut off
first, it would be annealed, necked
to hold 585 bullet. Fairly sharp shoulder.

They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe fit
98 Mauser bolt.
Maybe used a special hogged out, reworked action. Listed
as
shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about
150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter
case, where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG
case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG or PH sized bolt and action. I'm
glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and
new. Years ago when
guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to
rework, and maybe back then
they could have used the 3" spotter case, by shortening
the neck,
if they could have found couple barrels full.

But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much,
with the multiple dies,
multiple annealings, and case trimming and extreme
reworking of regular rifle actions,
which is why I like our 585 case, simple and straight,
any regular, long bolt action,
falling block, break action, etc, a 585 good for dozen
or more heavy loadings,
and moderate loads, last forever..

For our 585HE , made it a size, actually new belted size,
to fit regular size, long bolt guns,
(not BMG actions)that didn't have to be used from a
tripod, and could be put in a favorite,
of many, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without
taking metal out of the feed trough.
And to get the same and much more powder space as a cut
back,
real short, fat, BMG case wildcatted to 585, we made
longer case and worked with guys
with a group buy, to get a factory run made. A miracle.
We thank all gun nuts for the help.Ed



Edited by hubel458 on June 14 2015 at 1:36am
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drinks
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Posted: June 14 2015 at 5:35pm | IP Logged Quote drinks

I have no,idea why this poster is allowed to continue posting his commercials on various sites.
If I could, it would delete all of his obviously commercial posts.


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Slick
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Posted: June 22 2015 at 1:42am | IP Logged Quote Slick

drinks wrote:
I have no,idea why this poster is allowed to continue posting his commercials on various sites.
If I could, it would delete all of his obviously commercial posts.


AMEN! - and let me also thank you for having the stones to post-up and say what a lot of us have been thinking for quite some time, but have been (too chicken-sh*t) hesitant to come right out and say it...

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Rigmarol
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Posted: June 22 2015 at 8:16am | IP Logged Quote Rigmarol

Personally, I thought someone was actually following his
thread. Not me, the info doesn't interest me in the
least.

Maybe a legacy friend from way back? He doesn't seem to
answer any questions in the posts I've bothered to read.
I could be wrong but it seems a bit one sided to me.


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hubel458
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Posted: June 24 2015 at 8:23am | IP Logged Quote hubel458

We always try to answer questions if folks ask.
As far as being commercial, that idea would suggest
making a profit. But this process has put
a bunch of us 35 grand in debt. So it's just a
info thread and hopefully helpful in getting
folks into big bores. Ed

Edited by hubel458 on June 24 2015 at 3:23pm
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Rigmarol
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Posted: June 24 2015 at 10:25pm | IP Logged Quote Rigmarol

And there you go. Thanks.



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hubel458
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Posted: July 05 2015 at 11:13pm | IP Logged Quote hubel458

Probably first 375 caliber cartridge made from 585HE
necked down, the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a
Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no
headstamps for wildcatters.

First notice of the case sent to me today off of a guys
facebook.


dges-calibers/6383d1435630729t-375-warlord-
image.jpg">


Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE to
maybe 2.4", for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt
they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up space in a levergun action,
say like our rimmed 24ga FH, a 585 bore,

but which is perfect with that rim for break actions like
our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed

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