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Buffalogun
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 1:07pm | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Today, I had the AR15 25-45 Sharps at the 50yd. line. 100gr. bullets are really stretching the OAL for fitting the loaded cartridges into the magazine.
Nosler 100gr. Ballistic Tips are extra long with their pointy plastic tips and streamlined shape. Wanting to see if there would be a noticable difference in accuracy, I cut most of the tips off the BTips. This allowed the ogives to be a little closer to the lands of the rifling and kept the bases of the bullets from taking up so much of the powder room.
I used my Dremel to cut off the tips.




and



Here are the bobbed bullets:



I don't think the bobbed tips had a negative effect on accuracy.


Mike

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Paul5388
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Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote Paul5388

Mike,

That's pretty good shooting! I wonder if it may not be more telling at longer ranges due to slight differences in weight and BC.

I use Hornady cup and core 87 gr and 100 gr in my .25-06, but it's a single shot.

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Buffalogun
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Posted: February 20 2015 at 5:09pm | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Paul,

Today, I had the AR at the 100yd. mark and shot the same 100gr. BallTip load as the 50yd. load. I also had two other loads along...one a 100gr. Sierra PH and the other a Barnes 80gr. TTSX.

Five shot groups for each opened to 1"-1.25". The BallTip shot the smallest of the three though I had bobbed the tips as before. There were no signs the bullets had become de-stabilized. I don't think cutting the tips caused any deterioration in accuracy.

However, the stock on my AR is a "6 position adjustable" unit. The adjustment feature gives the stock some wiggle room that can be seen in the scope. So the rifle can recoil differently each time the trigger is pulled.

I have a Handi barrel in .308 Win that had some play(excessive headspace) in it when it was closed. Grouping was unpredictable. I made a shim for the lug and the action closed tightly. The grouping improved much afterward.

I think I'll have to remove that wiggle if I'm to get the best accuracy from this rifle. I may pickup a standard A2 fixed position stock to correct the wiggle.


Mike

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M700
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Posted: February 22 2015 at 3:30am | IP Logged Quote M700

Mike, what sort of velocity are you getting from your 100 gr loads?

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Buffalogun
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Posted: February 22 2015 at 7:12am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Guy,

I haven't chrono'd the loads, yet. However, over on the AR15 forum and predatormasters forum there is quite a bit of info on the 25-223, which is essentially the same cartridge.

Those folks are getting 2,600-2,700 fps. with 100gr. bullets from 18"-20" barrels. Factory ammo from SRC is advertised at just shy of 3,000 fps. with Speer's 87 gr. hotcor bullet. My guess is I can probably get the Barnes 80 gr TTSX up around 2,900 fps.

Also, I was told by one of the SRC techs they were working with Nosler to produce an Accubond in the 87-90 gr. weight. We'll have to wait and see.

Several powders will work with the 25-45, although AA2200 and Alliant's RL7 seem to give top velocities with bullets of 80-100 gr.

With most hunting style bullets beginning expansion at 1,800-2,000 fps., the 25-45 should be good for our local smaller whitetails and coyotes to around 300 yds. My shots usually come at under 100 yds.



Mike

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: February 22 2015 at 9:35am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

It is interesting to see how the AR rifles have branched out into other caliber variations. And with the respectable accuracy that can be gotten from the AR platform, it is no wonder that more and more hunters have started going that route. Even the ultra heavy weight bullets with subsonic velocites are interesting, although I doubt I would ever really want to go that route myself.

The .223 Rem. bullets have their place and since there are now many types and weights of bullets in that caliber to choose from, they can even do somewhat of a decent job for many hunting applications. Of course I would think that larger caliber bullets certainly would be a safer bet when getting into deer sized game. Certainly a 100+ grain bullet moving at a respectable velocity should be a great medium game getter.

I like the fact that only opening up the neck is required to prep the case for this 25-45 chambering and most likely, the longer more ballistic efficent heavier .25 caliber bullets would not really be necessary to maintain a decent impact velocity at the ranges needed for most of the hunting this cartridge is best suited for.

My Son's 7.62 x 40mm Wilson Tactical requires the trimming off of the neck portion of the .223 case prior to passing through the sizing die and is a bit more work. His round allows a 125-130gr. .30 cal. bullet to reach about 2,500 fps. and he has proven several times that this combination is a deer getter. The weight/construction of the smaller .30 cal. bullets works very well at this velocity for medium game where as it is normally reqarded as a varmint bullet in the higher velocity .30 caliber cartridges.

The one drawback that I have seen with my Son's round is that powder choice is rather limited in order to get a dependable funtioning action and still get the velocity that is desired. Acurate 1680 is the powder of choice, but it's availability, like many powders right now, is sporatic. It's popularity with the .300 Blackout as well has certainly sucked up the availably supply. I have one more can of the old Win. 680 left and when that is gone, my Son and I will have to hope that 1680 can be found.

I have never owned a .25 caliber, but I have always thought that the .257 Roberts Improved would be about the perfect all around varmint to medium range game getter as it could reach right on out there. But like many of the other seasoned chamberings out there, do we always really need to have that much velocity and range?

Other than varmint shooting or hunting deer in the open, I have nearly always found 150 yards to be a long shot for the majority of my hunting. This 25-45 Sharps should be a delightfully fun and low recoiling round that has lots of potential. Simple to reload and of course, while using a whole lot less powder as well.

Mike, what are your powder choices that work the action at the desired velocites? Hopefully you have a bit broader range than my Son has with his AR.

   



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Buffalogun
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Posted: February 22 2015 at 11:37am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Rick,

Other powders that will work with various bullet weights are H322, H335, IMR3031 and IMR4198. There are probably some others, too.
As you know, which powder works well in an AR depends on the way the rifle is set-up. My rifle has a 20" barrel and rifle length gas tube. Since the .25-45 is a SAAMI accepted cartridge SRC uses the correct gas port diameter for working with their factory 87gr./3000fps. load.

I haven't had any problems with cycling the action on my rifle using RL7 and 80, 87 and 100gr. bullets. I tried IMR4198 and had no problems except that pressures rise a little faster with the 100gr. bullets, so velocities will suffer a little. I may try some H322 in time, too.

It appears the two best 100gr. bullets for the .25-45 are Sierra's 100gr. ProHunter and Speer's 100gr. HotCor. Both are flat based and don't have such a long ogive. Either should perform quite well at the .25-45's velocities.
However the Nosler 100gr. Partition could probably be included as well. Some of the lighter bullets such as the Barnes 80gr. TTSX, Sierra 90gr. HPBT, Speer 87gr. HotCor and as Paul mentioned, the Hornady 87gr. SP will work very well, too.

The .25-45 was intended to mimic closely the .250-3000 Savage. That cartridge has taken many deer, pronghorn and coyotes through the years.

One of the posters using the .25-223 suggested the full length .223 case was a little too long for use with 100gr. bullets, as the case mouth rides a little high on the ogive of the bullet when seated to fit in the .223 magazine. He trims his cases to 43mm and feels as though it's a better fit for the longer bullets.
I had an extra .257 Rob. case length gauge and shortened it a tad which trims the cases to 42mm and they work as well as the untrimmed cases.



My son got me interested in the AR platform and I felt the .25-45 would be the best option for me. It has plenty of smack at the ranges I hunt and uses the same cases as his .223 Rem. and .300 BLK. I just ordered 1,000 once-fired LC cases to help feed them.

I expected the AR to shoot a little differently than my bolts and singleshots and I was right.


Mike

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langenc
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Posted: May 28 2017 at 6:36pm | IP Logged Quote langenc

Nothing new??

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KinleyWater
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Posted: May 29 2017 at 5:29pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Hot stuff Buff!
Interesting cartridge, good shooting - sounds like a great day at the range .

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Buffalogun
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Posted: May 30 2017 at 1:12pm | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Actually, there has been another development since my first post on the .25-45 Sharps.

Over on another forum one of the posters has designed the .25-223AR wildcat, which is the 45mm 5.56/.223 case that has been trimmed to 43mm and necked up to accept .257" bullets. There is a rather lengthy thread about the cat and the users thereof.

Supposedly, the full length 45mm case causes problems when loaded with the longer .257" bullets, such as bullets of 100gr. or more. Allegedly, this causes the bullet ogive to extend down into the neck of the case and leave a gap at the case mouth. Naturally, this small gap causes the action to jam, allows debris to get down in between the neck and bullet and may even be the foundation for El Nino.

In the pic below, the pencil is pointing to the evil gap...



The cartridge above is loaded with the Hornady 100gr. SP and is the load I settled on for last years hunting season. The chance to use the cartridge on an animal never came. However, that may change in the coming season.

In my testing, I have run the Sierra 100gr. PH, Speer 100gr. HC, Nosler 100gr. BTip(with bobbed tip) and the Hornady 100gr. SP. I've also used the shorter 80gr.-90gr. bullets. I've never had a jam or any other problem with any of the above bullets.

Now the interesting part that has surfaced since my first post is that the .25-223AR has spawned a "Spec II" chamber that is LONGER than the original 43mm chamber for this wildcat. So now there are "Spec I" and "Spec II" chambers and the new chamber is closer to the .25-45 Sharps. The one with the evil gap.

The barrel of my .25-45 Sharps was made by Black Hole Weaponry and is a high quality barrel. It's performance has been stellar and I haven't tried all the loads I want to, yet. But, it has given up groups of .5"-1.0" at 100yds. with bullets that range in weight from 80 gr. to 100 gr. with not one hiccup.

It seems to me the .25-223AR may be the solution to a problem that never was. The best part of that thread is the on-game performance that has been shown. The cartridge has taken deer as far out as 300 yds. and a couple of cow elk. That's pretty good shootin' for this little case.

I'm getting ready to try some "Ramshot x-terminator", which is a powder recommended by SRC.



Mike

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langenc
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Posted: June 25 2017 at 8:26pm | IP Logged Quote langenc

I used Ramshot exterminator--27 gr and the Speer ot cores the other day.

Ive only shot at 50 yards but I had 8 shots that except for a small area, the one big hole was covered w/ a quarter.
Velocity according to SRC would be 2850 or so w/ my 20" SRC barrel.

That is my best load.
QUESTION-as a general statement is it good to try and jamb bullets into the leade in an AR, as w/ a bolt gun??

My son has a 6.5/223 and he was loading long, as long as he could get into the mag, even an altered mag. He didnt get any kind of accuracy. He is now going shorter, I dont know measurements.

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REM1875
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Posted: June 25 2017 at 9:12pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

WoW
The old black rifle certainly ain't the same as the one
I had in the military anymore......
Almost convinces me I need
one.......almost....someday... maybe... I guess.........
I like the idea of the 25 and 30 calibers......

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Buffalogun
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Posted: June 26 2017 at 5:22am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Chuck,

I am expecting a couple boxes of Nosler's .257" 100 gr. Partitions this week and hope to get them tested sometime next week. They should be able to be loaded to an OAL of about 2.260" and still give at least 2,600 fps. from the SRC's 20" barrel. I use ASC magazines and they allow for an OAL of 2.300"

The SRC barrels are rifled with three groove polygonal rifling. So far, I have gotten good accuracy from every bullet I have tried. The only OAL concern I've had is making sure the cartridges will fit in and load from the magazine. I can't say how far the ogive is from the rifling. But, the accuracy has been fine.

I think AA2200 and Alliant RL7 may be best when used with 80-90 gr. bullets and the 100 gr. bullets may give best results when loaded over AA2230/Ramshot X-terminator.

I'm also tinkering with my son's AR 6.8 SPC. and the grass needs mowing and the garden needs tending and I need to go fishing and there's rain in the forecast and.....



Mike

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Kenbro
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Posted: July 25 2017 at 2:07am | IP Logged Quote Kenbro

Hi from UK.
Just thought i'd give a comparison between performance of gas guns
and bolt guns.
I recently had a Rem. 700 in .17 Rem. cal rebarreled to 25-45 Sharps
with a reamer from Dave Manson. Barrel is Stainless Brux finished at
24".
I started testing with H335 and 87 grain Hot-Cor bullets.
Was easy to obtain Sharp's figure of 3000 fps. albeit, using more
powder than they recommended. Primers were CCI400.
I changed to R7 powder, CCI BR4 primers and 90 grain Sierra
Gamekings.
I've settled on 25 grains R7, with 90 GKs 2.348 from case head to
bullet tip.
Over the chrony. it averages 2938 fps, 1725 ft lbs.
3 shot groups @ 100 yards are 1/4" to 1/2" and I'm not the best of
shots. Friend shot 5 in 5/8" and i shot 10 into 1 1/2" with 8 going into
3/4".
Thanks,Ken.
Ps. I've no idea whether these loads are safe, but I can't see any
pressure signs.

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Buffalogun
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Posted: July 26 2017 at 5:33pm | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Hi Ken,

Nice to hear from someone across the pond!

Thanks for the info on your results in your bolt rifle. Looks like you have a finely accurate rig.

With an OAL of 2.348" I don't think your loads are over max. You should be close, though. I use ASC magazines in my AR 25-45 and they will allow an OAL of 2.300".

I think I've settled on a load for this year using the 87gr. HC over a max load of Ramshot X-Terminator. This should be close to a factory duplication load which has given very good performance on game.

AA2230 and Ramshot X-Terminator are the same powder and look to be about the best match for the 25-45. You might want to try one of those powders in your bolt rifle.


Mike

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REM1875
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Posted: August 03 2017 at 1:13am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Ok How do I see these photos from photobucket - it sent
me to site that wanted me to pay 400 bucks - that ain't
happening?!?!?!
For that price I will be using my vivid imagination
.......   

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Buffalogun
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Posted: August 04 2017 at 3:58am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Rem,

Photobucket dropped a bomb of lots of its users. They now charge for 3rd party hosting. I'm not paying it.

They caught a lot of folks by surprise.


Mike

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Posted: August 04 2017 at 4:11am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Buffalogun
Thanks -At 400 bucks a pop I am with you

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Kenbro
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Posted: August 05 2017 at 9:22am | IP Logged Quote Kenbro

[QUOTE=Buffalogun] Hi Ken,

Nice to hear from someone across the pond!

Hi Buffalogun,
Thanks for the welcome.
Xterminator used to be available over here, but, not it seems anymore,
so i will have to make do with the R7.

I spent a couple very happy weeks learning to fly a Gyroplane in Florida
way back in the late '80s.
Stayed in a trailer in a policemans yard on Camp Mack Road in Lake
Wales? Happy days.
Regards,Ken.

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Posted: August 11 2017 at 1:03pm | IP Logged Quote WVFalcon

Hello folks. I am new to the forum. Very glad to see newer post on the
25-45 Sharps. I have recently finished my build chambered in this
round. I have been a shooter and hunter most all my life and have
always favored the quarter bore. My first high power rifle was a M-70
Winchester 25-06 and I still have it to this day. So here is the deal. The
bolt action with my trusty Redfield "wide field luminaator" weighs 12
pounds. When I was a young man I weighed about 180 and a 12
pound rifle was then "sporty". Now add years and 100 more pounds
and nothing is "sporty anymore. So i decided to build this AR that
weighs in @8lbs. My favorite projectile is the SGK 90gr. Looking for
loads that work well out of a "16 tube. Thank you for any reply.

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