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Abram
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 8:19am | IP Logged Quote Abram

I am posting this in the Handgun forum but the subject applies to both HG and LG

I was having a discussion with another reloader when the subject of powder lot numbers came up. Now I have only been reloading for about 10 years so I consider myself a novice. This gentleman told me that if you have two identical powders with different lot numbers then you will need to work up the load again when you switch from one lot to the next, I thought that was strange, what say all of you who are more seasoned than I, do you need to rework the load you have when you switch powder lots?
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Rex
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 9:19am | IP Logged Quote Rex

Abram, that is probably good advice but I don't do it. However I don't load anything at the highest load shown in the book either so I have a little leeway. Same with primer brand switching.
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Ham Gunner
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 9:44am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

There are several powders still available under different names that are the same powder other than the lot number. Win. 296/H110, Win. 231/HP38, and several others to include rifle powders are the same powders, only manufactured at different times and for different distributors. One can see in the reloading handbooks that they call for different loadings of the supposedly same powders for best accuracy and for where the max. pressure range cut off is suggested due to time of manufacture.

I certainly agree with Rex. It would be best to rework a different lot # load up if it is near max, but I have never had any problems with most of my normal loads when getting a new batch of powder. As long as the accuracy is still there, I just load away.

I do have a few loads that are right on up there in the max. pressure range and I always rework them up when I have to buy some new powder.

I try to avoid having to rework up a load by buying powder in larger quantities. If I end up with several lots of a powder and have a fair amount in total, I blend them all together and then work my loads up. I try to store them in the larger jugs so that I know that the powder is all the same.

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Abram
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 2:01pm | IP Logged Quote Abram

Thanks fellas
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joed
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 2:22pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I'm with Rex and ham.

However, I see something today that makes me wonder.   For the last 10
years I've been shooting my .25-06 using RL19.     I switched from IMR4350
to RL19 because it gives me an extra 200 fps.   Alliant listed velocity at
3625 fps.   

A friend started using RL17 in his .25-06 and claims he sees 3660 fps.   I
looked at the Alliant site and the load for the .25-06 showed 3590 fps.   
Fast forward 2 years and I was looking again yesterday.   

Now they show RL19 at 3452 fps and RL17 at 3547 fps.   So, now the
velocity is down and RL19 gives less velocity then RL17.   Makes me wonder
what changed?

So, who do you trust?    

Not so sure about Alliant anymore.    I have RL17 and will give it a try.   But,
it raises a red flag that it was slower then RL19 at one time and is now
faster.

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RT58
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 4:15pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

There are a lot of things that affect pressure and if you load max. loads you should rework your loads anytime you change lots of any component, especially powder and primers.


So, who do you trust?

Alliant, for one. The reason their data keeps changing is the reason for the original post. It varies every time they run it, especially if they change primers or anything else that affects the burning rate or pressure. You can use their data but don't think that you are getting exactly the same result as they are, even if you are getting an identical average velocity. Just make sure you start low and work your way up, carefully if you want to go max. The current fad to shop for the highest velocity doesn't make a lot of sense and would make some of the old timers cringe.
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joed
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 4:32pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I'll also add that I use Varget for .22-250 and .308, used it for years.   For
some reason I could never match their velocity using their charges.   What was
supposed to give 3700 fps in .22-250 gave me 3390 fps from my rifle.   It took
an extra 2.0 gr to come close to their velocity, I got 3690 fps.   And it is the
same in .308, needs an extra 2.0 gr.   Never any signs of pressure in either
cartridge.

When I started using Varget I was warned about variations in lot numbers.   I
bought a good quantity of the powder but I'm almost out of it.    I guarantee
when I restock I will definitely cut back 5% and recheck my loading.


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Paul B.
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Posted: December 14 2016 at 5:21pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

No two lots of any powder are exactly the same. lose and sometimes
very close but methinks it's a very good idea to drop back a bit and work
back up. Either that or buy the larger jugs of powders you like. I go for
the 8 pounders for H4350 and H4831 and will probably go that way with
IMR 7828ssc if the end results of testing warrant the purchase. Big jugs
go a long way toward reducing that hassle of having to rework loads due
to lot change.
Paul B.
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Abram
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Posted: December 15 2016 at 6:23am | IP Logged Quote Abram

I guess going forward I will need to buy larger quantities of my favorite powder. I never thought about the lot to lot variations and I never read it in any of my books so it never crossed my mind. Some of my current loads are near max so I will need to drop back and work up again. I am also thinking that perhaps I need to record the lot number on my loading labels for future safety as well.
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joed
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Posted: December 15 2016 at 9:04am | IP Logged Quote joed

Paul B. wrote:
No two lots of any powder are exactly the same. lose and
sometimes
very close but methinks it's a very good idea to drop back a bit and work
back up. Either that or buy the larger jugs of powders you like. I go for
the 8 pounders for H4350 and H4831 and will probably go that way with
IMR 7828ssc if the end results of testing warrant the purchase. Big jugs
go a long way toward reducing that hassle of having to rework loads due
to lot change.
Paul B.


I've always tried to go with the largest quantity I can afford when buying
powder.   It really does make things easier.

The RL19 started out as something to try and I only bought 2 or 3 lbs of it.   
It does really well but I've been told it's temp sensitive. However, I don't use
the .25-06 during the cold months so can't say if it is sensitive.

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REM1875
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Posted: December 15 2016 at 10:50pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I definitely recommend reworking powder lots with bulk
surplus powders after learning the tough way about the
'fast' and 'slow' batches of WC-852.
Bulk surplus powders are mixed then they are loaded to
the appropriate pressure. In other words consistency
of composition from batch to batch is not the goal.
Loads are recalculated according to the batch. No
matter the amount of powder used the goal is
consistency in bullet performance.
I have some suspicion that there is some variance in
allowance for commercial powders but because of the
way I reload I have never tested this.
However I am much more cautious after my WC-852
experience.

I think that at 10 years that one is no longer a
novice even though we all feel like that no matter how
long we have been at it and will continue to learn as
long as we continue to reload.
This passion is constantly changing with advancement
in the industry. We are most fortunate that we deal
with a choices that allow us to use ancient methods
and equipment to the peak of modern technology.
A load that killed em 140 ago is still gonna kill them
today.   

Edited by REM1875 on December 15 2016 at 10:53pm


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Smitty500Mag
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Posted: December 21 2016 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote Smitty500Mag

The only thing I load anymore is plinking rounds so I
don't need to work up to max loads. I just load middle of
the road loads. That will keep me from accidentally going
below the min. load such as with H110 powder and I most
likely won't make a big enough mistake with my auto powder
measures to go over the max. load for a round either.   
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REM1875
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Posted: December 22 2016 at 6:32am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Smitty500Mag
Just how the heck does one plink with a 500 S&W?

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Smitty500Mag
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Posted: December 22 2016 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote Smitty500Mag

REM1875 wrote:
Smitty500Mag
Just how the heck does one plink with a 500 S&W?


Very carefully and I do it with my eyes closed.





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mikld
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Posted: December 23 2016 at 11:18am | IP Logged Quote mikld

I don't have any loads up near max so I will mix lots of powder (but I
will compare the results with my known loads with a previous
batch). I believe the powder manufacturers keep a close watch on
the performance/quality of their powder to match lot to lot; where
different lots are as identical as possible (I don't think one batch of
Bullseye would be like the "classic" Bullseye and the next batch be
more like Red Dot!).

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