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Desertrat
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Posted: December 22 2016 at 10:36am | IP Logged Quote Desertrat

For those of us that already have SA .44 Specials, this would be a great piece just to have a DA.

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RT58
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Posted: December 22 2016 at 7:38pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

REM1875 wrote:
...Sorry to hear ya got retired that way, I did too. I do
what I can when I can. and have come to grips with the
fact some projects just ain't gonna get done.
Glad to hear you're "set" though -makes the good days
even better.

It took me a while to adjust to the life change, and after I did a politician just had to change it again to get re-elected, which is a long story. But what really got me was the way guns became junk and prices of firearms and ammo went through the roof. I recently went to the "new and improved" and greatly enlarged Gander Mountain for the first, and last, time too. So everything didn't change a lot.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: December 24 2016 at 7:37am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

*sigh* Something else to pine over. I already have an M69, which I like very much, so this would be redundant, no? Still, the wife might want one...

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richhodg66
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Posted: December 24 2016 at 7:44am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

joed wrote:
Ham Gunner wrote:
I have been thinking about a five shooter in .44
Special. Was thinking along the lines of a smaller S&W or a Charter Arms
size though.

I had a Charter Arms Bulldog made by the former company before the
present one.   Was the worst firearm I ever owned.     I sold it after the first
range trip.

The Taurus 445 replaced it, bought it slightly used for about $250.   I've
heard a lot of bad talk about Taurus but I can only tell you how good mine
was.   In the small 5 shot guns the best .44 loads are 200 gr bullets, easy
on you and the gun.   

Don't think I've looked at a GP100, is it as small as the Taurus and Bulldog?    


Sorry you got a lemon. Charter went through so many reorganizations, but mine and my Dad's from the late 70's are excellent, as good as a small belly gun is gonna get. I've heard a lot about QC issues over the years, but I also heard the latest ones are good to go again.

Personally have always thought the GP100 was too big and heavy fro what it is. I liked the older Security Six revolers Ruger used to make a lot better, wish they still made that line.

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REM1875
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Posted: December 24 2016 at 6:16pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

The GP100 is much heavier and is larger than my
Charter Arms PitBull
I still got to say the Ruger security six is the
ugliest revolver ever..... BUT functions very
reliably.
It is smaller and lighter than the GP100.
The Taurus weapons I have I am pleased with and would
and do bet our lives on.

I have and old round nose 190 gr very similar to the
Lee MOLD DC 429-240-2R only 1R and 190gr. It is my go
to 44 spl and some use in 44-40s that have cylinders
long enough to handle it. Most single action 44-40
Colt, Remingtons and clones won't. Ugly but effective.
The lee MOLD DC 429-240-2R pretty much identical to
the Ideal/Lyman 429384 an old favorite for the 44
Russian, spl and mag. (246 gr)
Pretty much surpassed with new technology but there is
a reason these set records and pretty much are the
bullets that made the 44 Russian and Spl so popular,
so if ya get a chance to try these don't pass em up.


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John P.
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Posted: December 26 2016 at 7:17am | IP Logged Quote John P.

Seems like a nice revolver with a good review already over at Gunblast.
Nice to see a fairly easy packing .44 Special on the market that will
handle heavy .44 Special loads.

Edited by John P. on December 26 2016 at 7:18am
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Buffalogun
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Posted: January 06 2017 at 8:35am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

And.....for you snake lovers, Colt is bringing back the Cobra! For 2017.




Mike

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STCM(SW)
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Posted: January 06 2017 at 9:01am | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

No one has said what the cost will be on the Colt yet.
I've heard $700 and it's not a real Cobra being SS.

Big write up by the NRA I saw.

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JimH
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Posted: January 19 2017 at 8:20am | IP Logged Quote JimH

After retirement I don't buy as many guns - but that is one on my list!

I switched to a .44 as my backup gun last October - though I'm eagerly awaiting a supply of .45 WFN bullets to try in my Model 28 S&W converted to .45 Colt - which may replace it.

Jim

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REM1875
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Posted: January 20 2017 at 6:58pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I'm thinking about the Colt but it ain't way up
on the list. But it's appears to be on my list-
Now if she was a 357 it would be moving rapidly up the
list
As a medic/ corpsman I have seen and treated 38 spl
wounds (and a 357 through the arm of a tiny old
oriental lady and she was laughing ) among other
GSW and I remain unimpressed with the 38 spl. It does
however impress me more than than the 9mm.
A Smith and Wesson is usually over a hundred bucks
over what its worth
A Colt is us usually 2-300 bucks over priced and this
is true to form.
I look forward to hearing about how this pans out.


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JimH
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 6:19am | IP Logged Quote JimH

REM1875 wrote:
I'm thinking about the Colt but it ain't way up
on the list. But it's appears to be on my list-
Now if she was a 357 it would be moving rapidly up the
list
As a medic/ corpsman I have seen and treated 38 spl
wounds (and a 357 through the arm of a tiny old
oriental lady and she was laughing ) among other
GSW and I remain unimpressed with the 38 spl. It does
however impress me more than than the 9mm.
A Smith and Wesson is usually over a hundred bucks
over what its worth
A Colt is us usually 2-300 bucks over priced and this
is true to form.
I look forward to hearing about how this pans out.


I've shot, and more importantly seen shot, a lot of stuff that bleeds with a wide variety of handguns and rifles (and a few shotguns but not many) - I'm waiting to be impressed by a medium caliber handgun but in 50 years of handgun hunting I've only seen it once.

About three months before I retired we did have a shooting of a home invader in our county by a fellow with a 4" .357 using Hornady "Custom" factory ammo with a 158 XTP. The bullet went through side to side (and just fell out of his shirt on the other side (I'd consider that almost perfect penetration).

The subject turned to face the shooter a S&W 39 in his hand and tried to shoot - but the safety/decocker was on... so sad (not).

He did expire in a few seconds though (the bullet caught both lungs and the heart). Good shoot but it is one reason we don't stop until they are no longer a threat.

Jim

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KinleyWater
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 6:42am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

JimH wrote:
REM1875 wrote:
I'm thinking about the Colt but it ain't way up
on the list. But it's appears to be on my list-
Now if she was a 357 it would be moving rapidly up the
list
As a medic/ corpsman I have seen and treated 38 spl
wounds (and a 357 through the arm of a tiny old
oriental lady and she was laughing ) among other
GSW and I remain unimpressed with the 38 spl. It does
however impress me more than than the 9mm.
A Smith and Wesson is usually over a hundred bucks
over what its worth
A Colt is us usually 2-300 bucks over priced and this
is true to form.
I look forward to hearing about how this pans out.


I've shot, and more importantly seen shot, a lot of stuff that bleeds with a wide variety of handguns and rifles (and a few shotguns but not many) - I'm waiting to be impressed by a medium caliber handgun but in 50 years of handgun hunting I've only seen it once.

About three months before I retired we did have a shooting of a home invader in our county by a fellow with a 4" .357 using Hornady "Custom" factory ammo with a 158 XTP. The bullet went through side to side (and just fell out of his shirt on the other side (I'd consider that almost perfect penetration).

The subject turned to face the shooter a S&W 39 in his hand and tried to shoot - but the safety/decocker was on... so sad (not).

He did expire in a few seconds though (the bullet caught both lungs and the heart). Good shoot but it is one reason we don't stop until they are no longer a threat.

Jim


I find this interesting considering the high regard the .357 is held in certain circles. Thus we see that experience trumps theory and gives context to data collected after the fact. Thanks both, for lending your experiences.

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John P.
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 7:33am | IP Logged Quote John P.

JimH wrote:
REM1875 wrote:
I'm thinking about the Colt
but it ain't way up
on the list. But it's appears to be on my list-
Now if she was a 357 it would be moving rapidly up the
list
As a medic/ corpsman I have seen and treated 38 spl
wounds (and a 357 through the arm of a tiny old
oriental lady and she was laughing ) among other
GSW and I remain unimpressed with the 38 spl. It does
however impress me more than than the 9mm.
A Smith and Wesson is usually over a hundred bucks
over what its worth
A Colt is us usually 2-300 bucks over priced and this
is true to form.
I look forward to hearing about how this pans out.


I've shot, and more importantly seen shot, a lot of stuff that bleeds with
a wide variety of handguns and rifles (and a few shotguns but not
many) - I'm waiting to be impressed by a medium caliber handgun but
in 50 years of handgun hunting I've only seen it once.

About three months before I retired we did have a shooting of a home
invader in our county by a fellow with a 4" .357 using Hornady
"Custom" factory ammo with a 158 XTP. The bullet went through side
to side (and just fell out of his shirt on the other side (I'd consider that
almost perfect penetration).

The subject turned to face the shooter a S&W 39 in his hand and tried
to shoot - but the safety/decocker was on... so sad (not).

He did expire in a few seconds though (the bullet caught both lungs
and the heart). Good shoot but it is one reason we don't stop until they
are no longer a threat.

Jim


Shot placement and penetration are the two most important variables,
and in the case you mention, both sound near perfect.

I have seen small calibers provide stops and large calibers fail. It
seems to all rely on placement and penetration, with the fight left in a
critter, and a bit of luck also in the mix.

For me I stick with loads that are proven. I pretty much only carry 9mm
or .38 special, but I feel comfortable with both. In 9mm I carry the
Winchester Ranger SXT 127 +P+ load, and in .38 it is the Speer Short
Barrel 135 gr. +P load. Both are proven in the street.   

Regarding the new Cobra, it seems to be getting good on line reviews,
and I would mind replacing my bulky SP101 with it. It sure is good to
see Colt back in the the revolver business. I am hoping for a new 4 inch
Python in stainless.




Edited by John P. on January 28 2017 at 7:42am
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JimH
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 9:47am | IP Logged Quote JimH

KinleyWater wrote:
JimH wrote:
[QUOTE=REM1875] <Snippage>ht both lungs and the heart). Good shoot but it is one reason we don't stop until they are no longer a threat.

Jim


I find this interesting considering the high regard the .357 is held in certain circles. Thus we see that experience trumps theory and gives context to data collected after the fact. Thanks both, for lending your experiences.


I imagine I don't have to point out that there is no reliable "data" out there, since no one has the means to separate the "stops" from the "quits" (that isn't a criticism as I don't really know how to do it either, other than a review of videos with more information on shot placement and exact loads - which we seldom get).

Both Jeff Cooper and Elmer Keith wrote that no one man has shot enough to have his opinion considered definitive - and if they didn't consider theirs then I could hardly consider mine to be enough.

I do see things that make me question the "conventional wisdom" though. I know of dozens of cases in which a medium bore pistol bullet was placed what some would term "perfectly" which did not stop the fight (sometimes with really drastic results).

Same is true of the .40 S&W

I've not run into cases in which a .44 or .45 did not work but I'm not betting that they don't exist...it seems quite reasonable to me though that they fail somewhat less often.

We do have to sort of stipulate what we are talking about though and I no longer consider a heart shot to be "perfect", just "good shot placement".

I don't consider a hit to the lungs to be even "adequate" if we are speaking of rapid incapcitation (people do certainly quit the fight - even most of the time - but that is a mental thing not a ballistic thing).

For me "perfect" placement has become a hit to the upper spine or the Medulla Oblongata (though a hit to the brain in general does seem to work quickly most of the time - OTOH, it is hard to get a pistol bullet into the skull - we had a deputy shoot a woman in the face with a 4" .357 Magnum 125 JHP - it bounced off her cheek bone and she did not even loose her balance).

Jim H.

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RT58
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 12:48pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

After years of reading the "experts" spew their "knowledge" of ammunition and combat shooting, I entered the real world and filed all of it under the "B.S." tab. Then I realized they were nothing but advertising agents trying to sell the most expensive junk their clients had to offer.

The main difference in if a guy drops, or simply stops, with one, two,... or fifty shots to the torso is who is being shot and his mental state at the time.

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KinleyWater
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 2:25pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

JimH wrote:
KinleyWater wrote:
JimH wrote:
[QUOTE=REM1875] <Snippage>ht both lungs and the heart). Good shoot but it is one reason we don't stop until they are no longer a threat.

Jim


I find this interesting considering the high regard the .357 is held in certain circles. Thus we see that experience trumps theory and gives context to data collected after the fact. Thanks both, for lending your experiences.


I imagine I don't have to point out that there is no reliable "data" out there, since no one has the means to separate the "stops" from the "quits" (that isn't a criticism as I don't really know how to do it either, other than a review of videos with more information on shot placement and exact loads - which we seldom get).
...

Jim H.


Most correct, sir. My intent was to refer to information gathered in the aftermath of a shooting incident. Personally, I am grateful to have limited practical experience in this arena. Looking back, I can say from what I have seen that there are so many players at work, that every shooting is unique.

Returning to the topic of revolvers; I think I would like to wait a couple of years before seriously considering the Colt. To me, any time someone enters a market with something new (for them) I like to wait a bit to see if they really have their QC under control.

On the upside, if it does work out for them; perhaps they'll bring back the Anaconda...

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REM1875
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 3:31pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Sadly there is an insane school of thought among the
media and D.A.s who believe "too dead" is a crime.
Something I have never understood, 2 shots and dead is
ok - a panicked 15 rounds into them and dead is a
crime?
Same with too violent of a death caused by "exotic
ammunition" or weapons. You may be headed for a
lawsuit or jail.
For most dead is dead.

When we came from a run where the patient didn't make
it some idiot would always say in dead earnestness -
"Gee I hope he didn't die of anything serious"
In my line of thinking I have trouble conceiving of
where there is any form of less serious death no
matter the cause.

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RECURVE
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Posted: January 28 2017 at 5:31pm | IP Logged Quote RECURVE

I have a old cobra 50s I think nice to carry but the
trigger is got to much curve in it. 3 inch barrel very
accurate. Hasn't been shot much don't know what to ask for
it. Real good shape
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JimH
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 5:30am | IP Logged Quote JimH

RT58 wrote:
After years of reading the "experts" spew their "knowledge" of ammunition and combat shooting, I entered the real world and filed all of it under the "B.S." tab. Then I realized they were nothing but advertising agents trying to sell the most expensive junk their clients had to offer.

The main difference in if a guy drops, or simply stops, with one, two,... or fifty shots to the torso is who is being shot and his mental state at the time.



That, I think is the key. Caliber, marksmanship, tactics and even mind set all might have a bearing on the outcome of a fight but unless we can guarantee a hit to the Central Nervous System the most important factor in the outcome is "who" we are faced with.

That does not mean we give up and not train hard nor select the most effective firearm available to us, but it does mean we cannot judge by what works best most of the time - because our survival may not depend on what it takes to stop the "average" attacker, whatever that is.

Jim H.

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JimH
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Posted: January 29 2017 at 5:35am | IP Logged Quote JimH

KinleyWater wrote:
JimH wrote:
KinleyWater wrote:
JimH wrote:
[QUOTE=REM1875] <Snippage>ht both lungs and the heart). Good shoot but it is one reason we don't stop until they are no longer a threat.

Jim


I find this interesting considering the high regard the .357 is held in certain circles. Thus we see that experience trumps theory and gives context to data collected after the fact. Thanks both, for lending your experiences.


I imagine I don't have to point out that there is no reliable "data" out there, since no one has the means to separate the "stops" from the "quits" (that isn't a criticism as I don't really know how to do it either, other than a review of videos with more information on shot placement and exact loads - which we seldom get).
...

Jim H.


Most correct, sir. My intent was to refer to information gathered in the aftermath of a shooting incident. Personally, I am grateful to have limited practical experience in this arena. Looking back, I can say from what I have seen that there are so many players at work, that every shooting is unique.

Returning to the topic of revolvers; I think I would like to wait a couple of years before seriously considering the Colt. To me, any time someone enters a market with something new (for them) I like to wait a bit to see if they really have their QC under control.

On the upside, if it does work out for them; perhaps they'll bring back the Anaconda...


I agree completely. I've sure been guilty of jumping with excitement on the latest and greatest "innovation" to come on the market. Only to find I was actually part of the makers' test program

Now that I'm retired I take a more measured approach - waiting a year or so is not a bad idea at all. Let the folks who can afford it find the flaws.

Jim

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