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Rex
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Posted: January 01 2017 at 7:14am | IP Logged Quote Rex

Fighting a little barrel leading on my S&W 686. Doesn't lead bad as long as you keep the forcing cone area really clean. It seems to need cleaned a lot more than I think it should. Put a tight fitting patch on the jag and push it through the barrel and the resistance drops as you leave the rifling then gets tight again before you get out of the forcing cone area. Feels like I would imagine a "jug choke" in a shotgun barrel would feel except it is at the other end of the barrel.
I'm guessing that I will just keep cleaning and shooting, what else has an old man got to do?
I've read about fire lapping but that looks like a lot of voo-doo involved to me.

Edit:
Yes Wade, with 5.5 grains Unique in a .38 Special case and a clean forcing cone those cast bullets shoot really nice.

Edited by Rex on January 01 2017 at 7:17am
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richhodg66
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Posted: January 01 2017 at 7:25am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I did some limited fire lapping on a .22 Hornet rifle barrel that (oddly) had a pitted patch in the middle of the barrel, seems like usually it's at the throat or muzzle if it pits. Anyway, I used ordinary valve lapping compound and following some pretty detailed instructions got it smoothed a bit. I never got it to where I couldn't see it, but could definitely feel a difference during cleaning and the rifle shoots the soft, plain based bullets at low velocities I wanted it to do quite well. I never have given it a serious accuracy test, the rifle did what I wanted it to do pretty easily and I ceased pursuing other loads.

Seems like there are gunsmiths who specialize in uniforming cylinder throats and cleaning up forcing cones in revolvers and some guys say it makes a big difference. I doubt it's a difficult job for a guy who knows what he's doing.

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: January 01 2017 at 10:45am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Easy enough to grease up a few soft lead bullets with some fine valve grinding compound and roll them between two flat pieces of steel to make sure the compound gets embedded into the lead. Shoot a couple dozen or so through the revolver and I bet you can feel a bit of difference.

It should polish the whole bore a bit, but most of the work will be done on the restriction area.

I also had to polish up a .22 Hornet barrel. My Ruger 77-22 would get copper fouled really fast and accuracy would fade away before I polished it. I used a bore mop saturated with first coarse and then fine valve grinding compound. I imagine I passed the bore mop through the bore with the coarse at least 100 times and then changed mops and likely 300 or more passes with the fine.

Reduced the copper fouling significantly. Before, 20 rounds and it would start loosing it's grouping. Afterwards, I think it would take at least 40-50 rounds before it started showing signs of inaccuracy.

Using a dozen or so soft lead slugs should work much faster.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 01 2017 at 11:39am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Fire lapping is actually a decent home remedy for mild bore restrictions and removing most roughness. In my gunsmith school we learned hand lapping and such, but I never advised one at home to try it. There's a learned feel and technique that can't easily be explained and requires hands-on to learn. However, Rex, you can fire lap easily with about 2 cylinders full then clean and test fire. Shooting a dozen at a time quickly gets things done. Remember, always clean well before testing. You want "natural" lead going down the bore without any stray abrasives present to effect your tests.

Load your "lapping rounds" with just enough powder to simply spit the bullet out the gun. In a .38Spl case usually 1.5gr of Bullseye will do the trick. Don't crimp. Use just enough to take off the "bell) of the case. Go slow watching for squibs.
Punch a dozen. Clean well. Test. Repeat as necessary. And then take two aspirin and call me in the morning. (Couldn't help it :-)   )

I've got one myself to polish and rather than hand lap with my crippled arm, I'll fire lap it. And of course I'm going to polish the forcing cone as well if the fire lapping doesn't help it. But that may not be needed maybe. We'll see.

Holler if ya need help. Always here.

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Buffalogun
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Posted: January 01 2017 at 1:17pm | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Rex,

Fire-lapping is a viable method of cutting out the constrictions inside a barrel, as well as polishing the bore. Constrictions are usually found where the barrel screws into the frame and under the sights. I have used fire-lapping several times on rifles and revolvers. Never found it to hurt anything.

I use the compound that was sold by Veral Smith at LBT. Use straight lead bullets with a lot of bearing surface over a small dose of fast powder.
The soft lead will cut the first high spot it touches and not cut after that because of leads lack of memory. As such, it will cut down the high spots and not the rest of the bore.

HOWEVER...if the cylinder throats are smaller diameter than the forcing cone, guess which will get cut first!

Might want to slug the throats and bore before you start.



Mike

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twillis
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 1:20pm | IP Logged Quote twillis

You might want to have a gunsmith "Taylor" throat the forcing cone.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 11:00am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Went out yesterday with my .44Mag Bounty Hunter S.A. revolver with 240gr SWCGC loads around 950fps. Fired 48 rounds and the bore was lead plated! With gas checks no less! Plain based is even worse and as low as 650fps it leads up something fierce! I've quit casting .44 cal bullets altogether now and load only copper plated.

Shot some cast 452374 RN in my 45ACP and the bore was smeared all up and down with lead! There's another candidate for copper plated rounds.

Oh well at least I got a lot of nice moulds huh?

Footnote: Thankfully my 38 caliber bullets don't lead much at all. Often never really.

Edited by Old Ranger on January 13 2017 at 11:02am


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Rex
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 1:16pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

I shot a bit this afternoon with the 446 bullets over 12.5 grains 2400 and 6.5 Unique in 357 cases. Minimal leading. I hadn't shot for a week, getting over Flu . You wouldn't believe what that looked like, even had trouble cocking the hammer with my weak side thumb.

Oh Yes, Hoppe's Synthetic #9 will turn to a heavy jell in an unheated garage, the original won't.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 4:48pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Rex wrote:
Oh Yes, Hoppe's Synthetic #9 will turn to a heavy jell in an unheated garage, the original won't.


The original was mostly kerosene. The new stuff's likely some yuppie environmental friendly bug juice!



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REM1875
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Posted: January 15 2017 at 8:43pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Old Ranger wrote:
Went out yesterday with my .44Mag
Bounty Hunter S.A. revolver with 240gr SWCGC loads
around 950fps. Fired 48 rounds and the bore was lead
plated! With gas checks no less! Plain based is even
worse and as low as 650fps it leads up something
fierce! I've quit casting .44 cal bullets altogether
now and load only copper plated.

Shot some cast 452374 RN in my 45ACP and the bore was
smeared all up and down with lead! There's another
candidate for copper plated rounds.


Oh well at least I got a lot of nice moulds huh?

Footnote: Thankfully my 38 caliber bullets don't lead
much at all. Often never really.



This from the your mystery lead batch?

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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 15 2017 at 9:08pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Allegedly supposed to be WW fluxed and clean. Likely another lie by the third seller I've bought stuff from. I've quit casting big bullets now. They all lead up. Just gonna do 38's and that's it. Ain't casting nuthin big anymore. Ever! I quit.

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noylj
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Posted: January 16 2017 at 8:42pm | IP Logged Quote noylj

Leading in revolvers:
Besides the possibility of a barrel constriction where the barrel enters the
frame, you also need the bullet to be:
1) a snug slip-fit in the cylinder's throats
and
2) AT LEAST 0.001" over actual groove diameter.
Next, if you believe in really hard alloy (18 or harder), add another 0.001" to
the diameter.
You also need to pull a bullet after seating to verify that you used sufficient
case expansion (NOT case mouth flaring) so bullet was seated without being
swaged DOWN in diameter. If you seat a 0.359" bullet and pull it and it is now
0.358", you need a larger expander.
Finally, a light tumble lube in Lee Liquid Alox will eliminate a lot of leading, as
will using coated bullets (provided your crimp doesn't damage the coating).
Please read:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_7_Leading.htm

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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 16 2017 at 9:55pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Ya know I've done all the above except the coated bit with the 44Mag. Worked ok in the 38Spl but they don't lead up bad. But that 44 and the 45ACP lead up something fierce. So I've learned my lesson and consider my big bore casting to be jinxed. I really have quit casting anything larger than 38cal size bullets. Only time I'll cast over that diameter is round ball for my BP revolvers and rifle with soft lead. Somehow I've managed not to mess that up. Was going to fire lap the 44, but I've abandoned the idea as I don't believe it's worth the effort now. Same loads did the same thing in a very close tolerance S&W 629-6. Lead city! So I quit and now I'm loading all plated stuff above 38.
When EVERY round cast leads up, then its time to throw the key in the water bucket and ride away.

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