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kadman
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 10:51am | IP Logged Quote kadman

Hi everybody n happy new year.I started reloading for my
ruger ar223 I've only did five so far and the problem I'm
having is when I cycle them they jam the bolt so bad I have
to force it open with a screw driver.I've trimmed the brass
to specs but no luck and seated the projectiles to max
specs


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mikld
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 11:25am | IP Logged Quote mikld

Are the reloads sticking in the chamber? If so, the cartridge is too
big somewhere. Whenever there is a fit problem, measure.
Measure the diameter of the cartridge in several places (mouth,
neck, shoulder, mid body, near head, at head). Also, mark a
cartridge with a marking pin (a few stripes along the cartridge will
do) and chamber it. Remove cartridge and see where the marking
is scraped off.

Simply put; for a peg (cartridge) to enter a hole (chamber) it must
be smaller than the hole. Your reloads are larger than the chamber
somewhere...

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twillis
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 12:11pm | IP Logged Quote twillis

If it is partially chambering a good place to look is the base. Some auto-loaders require you to use a Small Base sizing die to return the base of the base back to minimum size.

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Rex
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 1:25pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

I had a set of small base 223 dies that I never used but I sent them to TXpete as he was having some trouble. Never had time to hear back from him, guess I'll have to wait a while to meet and visit with him now. I'd bet small base dies will help you.
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RT58
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 1:44pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

I agree, it sounds like a sizing issue. Make sure your dies are adjusted according to their directions. It is also possible they are defective.

Small base dies may help, if the brand of dies you are using offers them. If they don't offer specific "small base" dies, they already are small base.
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M700
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 2:01pm | IP Logged Quote M700

twillis wrote:
If it is partially chambering a good place to look is the base. Some auto-loaders require you to use a Small Base sizing die to return the base of the base back to minimum size.


Yup, I'd recommend the small base dies if you've exhausted other possibilities.

Guy
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USA Joe
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Posted: January 13 2017 at 6:34pm | IP Logged Quote USA Joe

Hi Kadman & welcome aboard :) Lots of good info so far I may only add / what type of loader are you using & may be "once fired mil spec cases" ? Some presses have a little spring or stretch that will allow the case to not completely be sized ! If your not using a case chamber gauge then I would suggest resizing case / trim & see if it will chamber in your rifle / if not turn size die down tighter by 1/8 to 1/4 turn. & try again stay safe   Joe

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kadman
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Posted: January 14 2017 at 4:06am | IP Logged Quote kadman

Thanks for all the great info guys.figured out it was the
headspace was wrong.I adjusted my resizing die to the
makers instructions (Lee dies) and it wasn't setting the
headspace right.so I reread the Wilson length an headspace
gauges directions.seems ya need to tighten it down more
like USA Joe said

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joed
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Posted: January 14 2017 at 4:30am | IP Logged Quote joed

The .223 is the worst rifle cartridge I've ever tried to reload. I'm going to take
a guess that it's not the base.    This cartridge gives me fits with upper
dimensions of the case and the shoulder.

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RT58
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Posted: January 14 2017 at 7:11pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

kadman wrote:
...I adjusted my resizing die to the
makers instructions (Lee dies) and it wasn't setting the
headspace right.so I reread the Wilson length an headspace
gauges directions.seems ya need to tighten it down more
like USA Joe said

That's interesting, what model of press are you using?
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kadman
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Posted: January 14 2017 at 8:02pm | IP Logged Quote kadman

im using the lee classic turret press(4 hole)it seems to
set the headspace better than the lee reloader did.with
a set of lee pacesetter dies with the factory crimp die

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The_Shadow
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Posted: January 15 2017 at 8:26am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

I started loading for the 223 / 5.56 recently, I opted
for the RCBS Small Base dies from the start. I do my
sizing and depriming on a single stage press using
Imperial Sizing Die Wax as case lube. This die is set
to touch the shell holder just befor camover, you know
its right when cam over occurs with the press and no
space is between the shell holder and the bottom of
the sizing die! People with progressive presses need
to check for shell plate flex with respect to this
step.

Many of the 223/5.56 ammos have staked or crimped
primers in the pockets. Cutting uniforming the crimped
primer pockets (very important step with respect to
repriming). With the cutter I got from RCBS to uniform
the pockets, I have felt the cutting deeper down
inside where the pocket staking took place.

Recently I segregated all the brass with small dents
and loaded them to plink around with, everyone of them
cycled just fine and accuracy at 60 yards was still
fairly good.

One thing I did notice is that media from polishing
can get stuck inside these small neck cases, so
inspect them well.

Best regards.

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joed
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Posted: January 15 2017 at 8:28am | IP Logged Quote joed

The .223 has always given me fits with headspace.   I spent a lot of time
checking case measurements to find the problem.   Whenever anyone has a
problem loading this round it almost always turns out to be headspace.

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richhodg66
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Posted: January 15 2017 at 9:37am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I've never loaded for it in an autoloader, but it was one of the first rifle cartridges I started loading for in a very plain jane Savage 110 and honestly, it was almost too easy to reload for me. Even as a beginner, I couldn't load bad ammo, anything I put together for it shot dime size groups at 100 yards. Hopefully you have it all figured out by now, if it was just a tweak to sizer adjustment, that's great.

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RT58
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Posted: January 15 2017 at 2:07pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

I noticed the "spring or stretch" USA Joe mentioned a long time ago while using a Lee Hand loader to size pistol brass. After setting the dies up to their directions and giving an extra 1/3 turn, which sets it down about .024" more, I noticed a large gap between the die and shellholder. This wasn't a big deal with pistol ammo, but what it would do to bottle necked rifle brass was.

This is caused by flex in the press material and slop in the linkage.

I was able to check my Rock Chucker and Partner presses with some feeler gauges and found them to have .005" and .013" of excessive play. When die directions tell you to turn the dies in further after touching the shellholder, this is what they are trying to remove, any slop after cam-over.
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getsmart
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Posted: March 30 2018 at 5:01pm | IP Logged Quote getsmart

joed wrote:
The .223 is the worst rifle cartridge I've ever tried to reload. I'm going to take
a guess that it's not the base.    This cartridge gives me fits with upper
dimensions of the case and the shoulder.


I am ready to begin reloading my first 5.56/.223 cartridges (dies are .223). I just started lurking, using the search function: <223 crimp>.
This is what I read. Made me laugh. Dillon has a machined case sizer. I assume that if it meets tolerance, it should chamber in an AR15 chamber, correct?

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turbo1889
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Posted: March 31 2018 at 6:14am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

With bottleneck rifle cases some flex in
the press if it's not a single stage large
frame press and some flex in the Lee o-
ring die nuts on any press if they aren't
tightened down tight enough can cause
headspace problems from resized cases
especially in auto loading firearms with
tight chambers.

223 / 5.56 this is an especially prevalent
problem that is exaserbated from both
sides of the ewuation. Its brass is more
likely to be resized with head space
problems due to operator error due to
underestimating the force necessary and
tightness necessary in the sizing setup
due to how small the case is and the "it
shouldn't take that much" attitude its
diminative size imparts combined with the
extra tight chambers on many of the higher
quality guns chambered for this cartridge
that try to wring extra accuracy out of it
using competition tight chambers in guns
that don't use a manually operated bolt
where manual force is available to cam the
round into a very tight chamber fit.

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RT58
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Posted: March 31 2018 at 6:59am | IP Logged Quote RT58

getsmart wrote:
I assume that if it meets tolerance, it should chamber in an AR15 chamber, correct?

Correct, and welcome to the forum.

Dimension specifications for ammunition and chambers are given in a range of "tolerances", the smallest chambers being slightly larger than the largest cartridge to ensure all factory ammo will fit into every firearm. Sizing dies also have tolerances to make sure the ammunition being reloaded is within the tolerances for factory ammunition.

As Turbo said, problems come from user error. Every press has some "slop" in the system, even solidly built, single stages, and it's not just from "flex", which is quite obvious in some presses, but from free play in the linkage systems. This is why the instructions for full length sizing dies tell you to adjust the die down further after the die and shell holder touch. Ideally the sizing die and shell holder will be touching at the end of the stroke with a case inside.

Bump sizing is the latest rage and is supposed to keep sizing to a minimum to increase case life and prevent incipient head separations. It does have some drawbacks and one of them is that it doesn't remove all of the free play and flex from the press, which affects consistency with match ammunition, for those that care.



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turbo1889
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Posted: March 31 2018 at 8:19am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

RT58 wrote:
. . . tolerances . . . the
smallest chambers being slightly larger
than the largest cartridge . . .


Normally true, but there are some
exceptions in some competition tight
chambers we're the smallest chamber is the
SAME size as the largest cartridge
and the tolerances are also very tight as
well, in theory this should still work but
in reality it takes very little fowling or
a slightly more worn then it should be
reamer being used for things too become
rather obnoxious.

I've actually seen this on at least one
spec sheet for a cartridge giving both
cartridge and chamber dimensions and their
tolerances where with the tolerances the
minimum chamber and the largest cartridge
dimensions we're identical in several
points and even a 0.0005" interference fit
in a single dimension. Can't remember the
exact cartridge but I do remember that it
was a short fat 6.5mm cartridge intended
for benchrest competition bolt action
guns.

To my knowledge it hasn't got that bad yet
in any of the so called "accuracy
maximized" tight chambered barrels for the
223 but it seems to me to have come close
or some have been trying to milk out more
cuts from their chamber reamers then they
should. I've already seen a couple brand
new AR-15 barrels that would not
consistently chamber fresh factory loads
consistently without having to use the
forward assist to force the rounds into
the tight chamber and we're fixed when re-
reamed with a minimum size 223 reamer
which removed a very small amount of
material which if the original chamber was
not smaller then minimum then why would a
minimum reamer remove more material?

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

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turbo1889
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Posted: March 31 2018 at 8:39am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

All that said - operator error is almost
always the primary issue and is usually
solved by screwing the sizing die in a
little further and/or using a more rigid
press for sizing.

Generally only if factory ammo is having
difficulty reliably chambering do you
start to work on things from the other
side and see if the chamber itself might
be too tight for reliability in real world
conditions.

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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