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Rex
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 12:57pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

How do you fellows load the 358429 Keith bullet in a .357 case? I've just started casting this bullet.
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Paul B.
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 1:33pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

I shoot the Lyman #358156 bullet which is a bit lighter in weight with
14.0 gr. of A2400. Probably start at maybe 12.5 gr. and work up. Should
be able to use 14.0 gr. but work up to it.
Paul B.
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dahlin
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 1:52pm | IP Logged Quote dahlin

I do shoot a 158gr.gc bullet with 11.7gr of 2400 in the 357 and its a real good shooting load and no leading. think Ill have to try 358156 in the 357 I have loaded it in the 38 with 4gr of Bullseye and it shoots well and leading hasn't been a problem my wife likes it in her Ruger 101. Randy
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Rex
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 1:52pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

I also like the 358156 but am trying to find a use for the Keith bullet besides in a 38/44 load.
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joed
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 1:55pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I crimp that case over the front driving band.    If you don't do that
trust me you're in for problems.

That bullet should never have been designed to be as long as it is.

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Rex
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 2:28pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

Joe, I shoot a S&W 686, cylinder is not recessed on them.
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joed
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Posted: March 17 2017 at 6:32pm | IP Logged Quote joed

Should be fine in 686 and K frame.    Gives headaches in N frames
though.   

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RT58
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Posted: March 18 2017 at 11:31am | IP Logged Quote RT58

joed wrote:
I crimp that case over the front driving band.    If you don't do that
trust me you're in for problems.

That bullet should never have been designed to be as long as it is.

Lyman manuals note seating some bullets deeper in their .357 data. The problem is some of these bullets were designed for .38 spls. and not the .357 mags.
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joed
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Posted: March 18 2017 at 4:44pm | IP Logged Quote joed

RT58 wrote:

Lyman manuals note seating some bullets deeper in their .357 data.
The problem is some of these bullets were designed for .38 spls. and
not the .357 mags.


That is indeed the problem with the 358429. It was intended for the
N frame shooting a high powered .38 Spl.   

That bullet gave me fits with my model 28 and 27.

But, it shot really nice with 13.5 gr of 2400 as that's what I shot it
with.   I also shot a lot of these in .38 Spl cases with 5.0 gr of
Unique.

Edited by joed on March 18 2017 at 5:03pm


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Rex
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Posted: March 18 2017 at 5:46pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

Joe, was that 13.5 grain in the 357 or 38 case?
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joed
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Posted: March 18 2017 at 7:21pm | IP Logged Quote joed

Rex, that was 13.5 gr in a .357 case.   Someone on here (think it was
Paul) was shooting that in .38 Spl cases.   I was afraid to try that one
so stayed with the .357 case.

I shot a lot of the 5.0 gr of Unique in .38 Spl cases at the range.
These I shot in a model 66.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: April 15 2017 at 6:52am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I have been shooting that 358429 for over 40 years now. Where you seat it depends on your gun. I shot a lot of those through a mod 19 S&W, which has a long cylinder and you can seat them at the crimp groove in 357 brass. I can also do that with my GP100. But in the little "L" frame Ruger when you do that there is not a lot of space between the bullet nose and the end of the cylinder.

In most of the old Lyman manuals they recommend that you crimp over the front driving band when loading that bullet in 357 brass.

With that thought in mind, you have about the same case volume as the 357 brass using .38 spl brass and seating the bullet out to the crimp groove.

Some folks do not like to use ,38 brass in the 35 magnum, because it always leaves a little ring in the cylinder at the end of the shorter cases, a function of the gas having lots of room to get around the bullet before it gets to the forcing cone.

I have been paper patching my .357 bullets and the 358429 lends it self nicely to that, the paper patching decreases the "unsightly" ring when using .38 brass.

That is a great bullet, it is extremely accurate at long ranges, the BC of that bullet is 286, and with a load that gives you 1350 fps at the muzzle, that bullet is still generating more kinetic energy at 100 yards than the .45 Colt standard load does at the muzzle.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: May 02 2017 at 10:24am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

John, I don't worry about the ring in the chambers. I simply take piece of short rod and use a brush that fits and spin it a bit with a handheld cordless drill. A spritz of cleaner on the brush and a quick spin and its on to the rest of pistol cleaning. But we all know that I'm accustomed to a clean weapon so I never think much about it as its part of my cleaning method when shooting specials in magnum pistols.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 02 2017 at 11:16am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Old Ranger

That ring is really nothing to worry about, it is a product of using the shorter cases which give the powder gases more room to get around the bullet before it hits the forcing cone. The gases cut the base of the bullet and leave a bit of lead in the cylinder. I clean that up with a bit of a copper scowering pad wrapped around a bore brush.

The only difficulty comes from shooting a lot of .38s and then switching to .357s, the ring can make the .357 cases stick in the cylinder.

Using .38s in your 357 is a very convenient way to keep track of what loads you are using.

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LAH
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Posted: May 06 2017 at 10:02am | IP Logged Quote LAH

I shoot the 358429 in my M-19 crimped in the groove
loaded with 5.5 grains of 231 or Unique. Shoots lights
out in my gun & won't beat it to death.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 06 2017 at 10:42am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

LAH

I carried a mod 19 when I was a Trooper in Alaska, in my off duty time I carried the 19 loaded with the 358429 bullet over 7 gr. of Unique, in .357 brass crimped in the groove.

I did not know back then that the 19s have a design flaw, that being the cut out at the back of the barrel, a lot of those guns have cracks in the barrel at that point, mostly from shooting the very high intensity 125 gr. JHP ammo.

The mod 66s do not seem to be as susceptible, just different heat treatment on the SS guns.

When I retired I got a Mod 19 AST commemorative gun which I carry on occasion, but I do not use any hight intensity .357 jacket loads.

My loads for the 19 are usually the 358429 or the same bullet in the hollow point version. Both bullets are loaded to 1000 to 1100 fps. in hopes of preserving the very nice shooting gun.

At the end of the day if you cannot do whatever you need to do with loads in that range, then perhaps a shotgun is in your future..

PS

The 19 is still in "print" and apparently the current "version" does not have the barrel cutout.
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RT58
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Posted: May 09 2017 at 8:34am | IP Logged Quote RT58

John Van Gelder wrote:
The 19 is still in "print" and apparently the current "version" does not have the barrel cutout.


I carried a model 19 for 11 years or so, it was a good gun for law enforcement. I went to a 686 after that and hated it, it was soon replaced by a series of other S&Ws and I ended up with a 65 at the time of my retirement.

I didn't see a 19 listed on their website. They were discontinued in 1999, along with the model 13. The models 66 and 65 were discontinued in 2004 and were replaced in 2005 with models 619 and 620, which were seven shot L-frames. They do show a new model 66 on their site with the only option being a 2 3/4" barrel. As far as the barrel "cutout" I gave up on S&W when they decided to improve their guns with MIM manufacturing, the current two piece barrel may let them not have to thin the forcing cone, but I doubt it's any "better".
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Old Ranger
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Posted: May 09 2017 at 8:47am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I have always believed that a K frame was too light for the .357Mag. Simply not enough metal to do the job.

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twillis
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Posted: May 09 2017 at 12:45pm | IP Logged Quote twillis

Old Ranger wrote:
I have always believed that a K frame was too light for the .357Mag. Simply not enough metal to do the job.


Hence, the L frame! I like my 686

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 10 2017 at 5:53am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Apparently the article I read about the new and improved "19" was in error. The rationale behind the original 19 was that was something to be carried a lot and shot not so often. We carried 19s, 66s and then went to the 686.

When I was in Alaska I got permission from my detachment commander to carry my own mod 28. Which was probably my favorite S&W .357.

Someone had a box of the original .357 magnum "factory" ammunition that they had pressure tested and the upper end was 46,000 cup. Our original issue ammunition was the old Super X plated 158 gr. lead bullet. A steady diet of those would be a little hard on a 19.

Currently most of the factory .357 ammunition is in the upper 30K range and the manuals list up to 42K.

After I retired I could have purchased my duty 686, but I got a GP100 instead, I think that they may be just a bit more durable.

Back when the Redhawk was chambered in .357 you could max out the .357. Over in the load data base johnk has a load using the 358429 at 1500 fps+ producing over 900 ft/# of energy.

The 358429 bullet over 6 gr. of Unique in a .38 spl case crimped at the groove works nicely in any .357, is pleasant to shoot, wont prematurely wear out your gun and will do anything you need to do with careful shot placement.

There is a really good article about high speed .38 loads, by John Goins, I saved the article but not the link to it. I might be able to upload the article but am not sure about the page formating.
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