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rman
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Posted: March 18 2017 at 6:54pm | IP Logged Quote rman

I've never used Sierra JHP bullets in 9x19mm before. I
loaded up some test loads using Winchester Cases, CCI
primers and the Sierra bullets. I checked every round with
a Wilson case gauge and all passed. The COL is 1.070" which
is well below max. My HK VP9 and S&W Shield eat them like
candy, but they won't fully chamber in my grandson's XD Mod
2. It has me puzzled. I've never had rounds that are within
limits in the Wilson gauge fail to chamber. It shoots
Blazer Brass 115 gr and American Eagle 115 gr FMJ factory
loads with no problems. Any ideas?

Edited by rman on March 18 2017 at 6:57pm


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Ham Gunner
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Posted: March 19 2017 at 8:58am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

My older Sierra manual shows that their 115gr. JHP recommended COL is 1.10" so I would not think length would be your problem and since two other guns eat them just fine, I suspect that you could have a build up in the chamber that could possibly be preventing the reloaded round from chambering all the way yet still allow factory ammo to chamber.

A careful check of the round with a micrometer could give you a clue as to any small differences in the round from factory rounds. Calipers are useful, but a micrometer is needed to really see if the round is large enough at some point to prevent chambering in a possible tight chamber.

Since this reload chambers in the other guns, it seems to point to this XD as having a tight chamber for whatever reason. Most likely carbon build up.

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RT58
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Posted: March 19 2017 at 10:42am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Welcome to the forum rman.

I don't have any experience with the XD2 in particular but I have loaded for a lot of other autos.

Some of them get finicky with ammo due to their feed ramp set-up and certain bullets nose profile. It may be that the bullets nose is rubbing against the barrel on feeding and doesn't have enough momentum left to fully chamber. Sometimes adjusting the bullet in or out may help. Also make sure you read the owners manual for the pistol as some will not work with certain bullets/ammo.

If no one here has experience with the XD2, you might look for a site or forum dedicated to it.
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rman
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Posted: March 19 2017 at 1:51pm | IP Logged Quote rman

Thanks for the ideas guys. Checking the XD forum is a good
idea too.

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Paul B.
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Posted: March 19 2017 at 2:32pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

If you haven't already done this, what I would do is take the barrel from
the gun and try and seat the cartridge. The 9mm like the .45 ACP
headspaces on the leading edge of the cartridge case. If the head of the
cartridge case in not flush or very slightly below the rear of the barrel, the
cartridge is too long for that particular firearm. Possibly seating the bullet
very slightly deeper will fix the problem yet not affect how the ammo
works in the other guns.
Paul B.
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rman
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Posted: March 19 2017 at 4:00pm | IP Logged Quote rman

Another good idea - I'll try it. Thanks!

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rman
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Posted: March 20 2017 at 8:39am | IP Logged Quote rman

Last night I broke down the Shield, LC9S and the SR9C.
The rounds dropped in all of them with no issues. This
had me stumped. The Sierra bullets look a little unusual.
They have a long bearing surface and the business end is
a truncated cone. The angle of the ogive is pretty sharp.
While I had all the barrels out of the guns, I examined
each one. It seems that the rifling on the XD barrel
starts right at the ridge where the rounds headspace in
the chamber. The other barrels have a slight amount of
freebore. This morning I made up a dummy round and seated
the bullet to 1.070" to match my loaded rounds. Of
course, the dummy wouldn't chamber. I went in stages,
shortening the overall length slightly, and rechecking.
When I reached an overall length of 1.025", the round
fully chambered.

It is kind of a strange phenomenon - one I hadn't seen
before. It looks like the rounds will feed fine with the
shorter overall length, but I think I'll save the Sierras
for my other 9mm's and use Hornady XTP bullets in the XD.
The XTP bullets have a longer ogive and will work fine
with a longer COL in the XD. We've shot some Hornady
Critical Defense ammo in the XD and they use XTP bullets.
They have a COL of 1.060". I have 1,000 of the Sierras,
but I can shoot them in my other pistols.

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies/suggestions.

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RT58
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Posted: March 20 2017 at 11:51am | IP Logged Quote RT58

That's interesting. Thanks for letting us know. By the way, what weight are the Sierras?
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Rifleman 52
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Posted: March 20 2017 at 4:09pm | IP Logged Quote Rifleman 52

     rman
My son has a Ruger P-93-, 9-MM. It only likes round nose
bullits. It will not shoot Hollow Points or truncated
bullits with out the jamming or stove piping once or
twice on each clip. The Pistol loves Hornady 147-gr,
round nose. Just my 2-cents.... chris
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rman
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Posted: March 20 2017 at 6:39pm | IP Logged Quote rman

RT58 wrote:
That's interesting. Thanks for letting us
know. By the way, what weight are the Sierras?


125 grains

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noylj
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Posted: March 21 2017 at 12:37am | IP Logged Quote noylj

First, COL depends on the gun and the bullet, and not any number from a
manual. The feed ramp angle, the point where the magazine releases the
round, the length of throat all effect the COL and no manual knows those
numbers for your gun.
Second, what is the problem?
If the round jams against the feed ramp, that usually means the COL is too long
or the magazine is not releasing the round soon enough. If the rounds jump up
and jam at the top of the barrel or barrel hood, that usually means the COL is
too short.

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noylj
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Posted: March 21 2017 at 12:42am | IP Logged Quote noylj

First, COL depends on the gun and the bullet, and not any number from a
manual. The feed ramp angle, the point where the magazine releases the
round, the length of throat all effect the COL and no manual knows those
numbers for your gun.
Second, what is the problem?
If the round jams against the feed ramp, that usually means the COL is too
long or the magazine is not releasing the round soon enough. If the rounds
jump up and jam at the top of the barrel or barrel hood, that usually means
the COL is too short.
Finally, the solution to many chambering problems is to:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't
chamber (note where a factory round case head ends up on the barrel and
watch for rounds that stick up above this point). Take that round and "paint"
the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in
barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp (if the
round drops freely, the edge of the case mouth should hit the "ledge" to the
throat. In this case, if there is any residual case mouth flare, the extreme
edge and part to the case body will be scratched).
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're
crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due
to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating
stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not
removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.


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rman
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Posted: March 21 2017 at 3:53am | IP Logged Quote rman

As near as I can tell, the XD has a very short throat. I
gave the chamber a thorough scrubbing and the rounds
still wouldn't fully chamber. After shortening the COL,
the rounds drop right in. Apparently the shape of the
Sierra bullet's ogive was preventing it from chambering
fully. I guess you can't trust recommendations for COL.
I've never used Sierra bullets in my handguns before. I
usually use Hornady or hard cast bullets. I have reloaded
for an XD, but it is a .40 S&W, and I used Hornady
bullets. Anyway, I guess if any XD shooters out there
decide to try the Sierra 125's in their 9mm, they
shouldn't rely on a case gauges or past experience. Just
check them in your XD to make sure they chamber.

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RT58
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Posted: March 21 2017 at 7:12am | IP Logged Quote RT58

rman wrote:
... I guess you can't trust recommendations for COL. ...

When you see "COL" figures in a manual, it isn't really a recommendation. They are telling you what the COL was when they created their data. This is good to know because when you tailor your loads to your firearm, and you have to make them shorter, you know to reduce your starting and maximum loads. Older data sources didn't give this information, but then older reloaders weren't like the new breed.   
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rman
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Posted: March 21 2017 at 2:48pm | IP Logged Quote rman

RT58 wrote:
rman wrote:
... I guess you can't trust
recommendations for COL. ...

When you see "COL" figures in a manual, it isn't really a
recommendation. They are telling you what the COL was when
they created their data. This is good to know because when
you tailor your loads to your firearm, and you have to make
them shorter, you know to reduce your starting and maximum
loads. Older data sources didn't give this information, but
then older reloaders weren't like the new breed.   


You're right RT58! Good point.

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REM1875
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Posted: March 22 2017 at 3:10am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

While not a pistol I had the same problem with 7.5x55
Swiss. 3 set of dies before I found out just how finicky
it was about bullet shape because of where the rifling
starts.
Reading too much had me figuring the problem was with
the 1911 ammo shape vs the K-31- it was not. Problem was
totally bullet shape in my case.

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rman
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Posted: March 22 2017 at 12:10pm | IP Logged Quote rman

REM1875 wrote:
While not a pistol I had the same
problem with 7.5x55
Swiss. 3 set of dies before I found out just how finicky
it was about bullet shape because of where the rifling
starts.
Reading too much had me figuring the problem was with
the 1911 ammo shape vs the K-31- it was not. Problem was
totally bullet shape in my case.


It's funny. About the time you think you just about know
it all when it comes to reloading, you get humbled by a
simple problem. I reload for .380, 9mm, .38, .357, .41,
.44, .45A, .45C, .223 and .243. The only one that has
ever given me any real problems is the 9mm. I started out
using a Lee carbide die set. I kept having problems with
some rounds not fully chambering. I tried different
seating depths and nothing seemed to help. I finally
broke down and bought a Wilson case length gauge. I was
surprised at how many rounds didn't pass the test. It
wasn't a case length issue, but rather a problem with the
rounds being too large in diameter near the base. I was
using once-fired Remington brass and didn't figure it
could be case length. I gave up and bought a set of Lyman
carbide dies. I got fewer bad rounds, but still had a
few. Then I switched to once-fired Winchester brass and
my problems stopped. (Until I tried those Sierras in the
XD) I know guys who pick up range brass, don't sort it by
headstamp and get along just fine. I don't have these
problems with any other caliber. It seems to me that 9mm
brass must be really inconsistent, or I'm a lot dumber
than I thought.

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rman
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Posted: March 22 2017 at 12:22pm | IP Logged Quote rman

noylj wrote:
First, COL depends on the gun and the
bullet, and not any number from a
manual. The feed ramp angle, the point where the magazine
releases the
round, the length of throat all effect the COL and no
manual knows those
numbers for your gun.
Second, what is the problem?
If the round jams against the feed ramp, that usually
means the COL is too
long or the magazine is not releasing the round soon
enough. If the rounds
jump up and jam at the top of the barrel or barrel hood,
that usually means
the COL is too short.
Finally, the solution to many chambering problems is to:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you
find one that won't
chamber (note where a factory round case head ends up on
the barrel and
watch for rounds that stick up above this point). Take
that round and "paint"
the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other
marker. Drop round in
barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few
times.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--
insufficient crimp (if the
round drops freely, the edge of the case mouth should hit
the "ledge" to the
throat. In this case, if there is any residual case mouth
flare, the extreme
edge and part to the case body will be scratched).
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too
much crimp, you're
crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet
seated crooked due
to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or
improper seating
stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor
groove--case bulge not
removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.


I didn't read this post until after I thought I solved
the problem. It is really good info, and I wouldn't have
thought of it. I'm going to print this and save for the
next time I have 9mm problems.
Thanks,
Tom

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