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Rex
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Posted: March 22 2017 at 1:07pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

The Old Ranger gave me an IDEAL 357446 mould out of the goodness of his heart. The mould was stamped with a "U"
meaning it was cut with a worn cherry and the bullets would be undersized. Everything I read about this bullet suggested it was not accurate and would make a good weight for a trout line. I was a little reluctant to use the thing but yesterday I loaded some tumble lube bullets of this mould over 13.5 grains 2400 in .357 Mag cases and at 21 yards it showed a lot of promise but at home I found it leaded the barrel full length with the worst on the far end. I cast another handful last night and sized them .0015 larger ,larger even than the throats. Lubed them with my Vaseline/beeswax lube and loaded them the same as before. Today's trip to the dump produced 5 bullets almost on top of each other except the first shot I always manage to pull clear off of the swing plate. I swear if I ever get in a gun fight I'll shoot the first shot straight in the air just to get it over with! At home the barrel was clean save a light smear that a tight patch would wipe out.
Wade knew my revolver had tight throats when he gave me the mould and figured it would work. It sure did! This old 2 hold Ideal relic from the past will be my favorite from now on for more reasons than one.
Don't ever give on anything, keep experimenting.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: March 22 2017 at 1:52pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Rex, I'm pleased that it worked out for you. Something in the back of my mind said it was right for your weapon. I use a single cavity Ideal that drops em at .360" that when sized in a Lyman sizer they mike at .3585". Perfect for my old S&W and my Uberti single actions. Back in 1953 THE LOAD for that bullet in a mag case was 15gr of 2400!!!! Wow! I honestly believe 13gr~13.5gr is plenty.

Earlier today I hammered the plate at 75yds from a sitting position with my knees drawn up with that bullet and 7gr of Unique in a mag case and my 4 3/4" SAA. Anyone that says that bullet isn't accurate either doesn't know how to load or shoot, or is simply running on pure bull based upon hearsay and really just repeating nonsense with no personal knowledge!

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richhodg66
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Posted: March 22 2017 at 5:20pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I love it when a plan comes together!

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Old Ranger
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Posted: March 25 2017 at 8:28am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Rex, since I have no 2400 I've gone to alternative powders. The other Wade, The Shadow, is a longtime user of Blue Dot. Using that in mag cases loaded with various bullets and specs from Lyman manuals for that powder has shown good punch and velocity without excessive pressure. Wade's extensive use and experience with Blue Dot was a deciding factor in my use of it and at this point, I no longer miss 2400 at all.

Herco also developed good velocity and accuracy in .357Mag without brutal pressures. I've found it to be another "replacement" for 2400 that is nowhere to be found.

AA#9 in a magnum case performance is good as long as you stay near the top loading. My experience with #9 was poor until it reached close to the max load. Lower levels had unburnt powder and some uneven ignition issues. But just under max and it levelled out and got with the program.

At any rate, I'm just glad that old Ideal bullet's paying off in tight shooting groups. My brother said he liked the ones I sent him in both his 4" M19 and Henry carbine. His comment was "Shoots straight and hits hard. Even the unloaded bullet's got an all business look to it. Send more when ya can." And coming from him that's a compliment.



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The_Shadow
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Posted: March 25 2017 at 1:27pm | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Yep, Blue Dot serves me very well in many of the calibers...even reduced rifle stuff.

Have you all see that Hodgdon has a NEW IMR power called BLUE...it also has blue identifier
flakes in the mix just like regular Blue Dot.



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Old Ranger
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Posted: March 25 2017 at 4:53pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Hey Wade! Ya think the picture of the power's big enough?

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Rex
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Posted: March 25 2017 at 6:49pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

Wade, I've come to like this bullet a lot in this application. Need to try it with other loads in the .38 and .357. I do like the 358477 150 grain for target loads in the Special and the big Keith in fast .38 loads.
Wish Hodgdon would come out with a 2400.5 powder as Alliant seems to be hit and miss. The Blue dot I need to look into.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: March 25 2017 at 10:06pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Yes sir, Blue Dot gives good velocity without massive chamber pressure.
Also Herco has always given some dynamic performance in both special and magnum loads.
Most impressive.

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Rex
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Posted: March 30 2017 at 7:59am | IP Logged Quote Rex

Wade, this 466 bullet you got me started on is causing me grief! I can't figure out what to do with the 358429 bullets now. Today I'll try them with bullseye in a 38 special case.
Anyone got any good recipes with the 358429 send them along.
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dahlin
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Posted: March 30 2017 at 1:11pm | IP Logged Quote dahlin

Rex if you are looking for 357 stuff here is what I have Herco 6.3gr to 7.9gr Blue dot 8.2 to 10.9gr 2400 11.4 to 15.5gr H110 13.0 to 18.3gr AA7 10.0 to 12.2gr AA9 12.0 to 15.0gr Bullseye 4.1 to 6.1gr hope this helps. Randy sorry Rex I should have posted for 38 special

Edited by dahlin on March 30 2017 at 1:14pm
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dahlin
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Posted: March 30 2017 at 1:23pm | IP Logged Quote dahlin

Ok here's for .38 special Bullseye 2.6 to 4.2gr Unique 3.8 to 5.0gr Blue Dot 5.5 to 7.3gr 231 3.0 to 4.6gr HP-6 5.0 to 6.4gr AA5 4.3 to 5.1 gr this is from the LYAMAN load manual for #358429 bullet
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Rex
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Posted: March 31 2017 at 2:27am | IP Logged Quote Rex

Thank you Sir.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: April 15 2017 at 7:07am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

The 357446 was the standard for the 38/357 many years ago and was very popular with target shooters.

I got a mold for that bullet about the same time I got my first 358429 mold.

I felt the need for a four cavity mold and got the 358429 bullet in a four cavity Lyman mold, the old mold I had was just a single and it threw a 173 gr. bullet the new mold casts a 168 gr. bullet and my 357 446 bullet weighs 163 gr. in my alloy so it is kind of a toss up which I will use.

I have shot a lot of the 357446 bullets That bullet really shines in a .38 spl case over 6 gr. of Unique.

That comes pretty close the the old commercial loading for the .38-44.

And unless you are planning to meet up with a grizzly, that load will do for about anything you run into with some careful shot placement.

Back when I lived on the other side of the Mississippi, I used to lad that bullet in .38 cases over 3 gr. of Bullseye, and sally forth to hunt small game, that was pretty slow and did not do a lot of damage to things I wanted to eat.

As I have found over the years there can be a lot of variation in molds of the same number.

Edited by John Van Gelder on April 15 2017 at 7:14am
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Paul B.
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Posted: April 15 2017 at 12:11pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

"And unless you are planning to meet up with a grizzly, that load will do
for about anything you run into with some careful shot placement."

Dunno if I'd want to tangle with a Grizzly bear with a .357 Mag. but I did
shoot a BlackBear back in 1959 with an S&W 38/44 Outdoorsman and a
full power handload using the Lyman #358156. The bear died.
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richhodg66
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Posted: April 15 2017 at 1:04pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

The_Shadow wrote:
Yep, Blue Dot serves me very well in many of the calibers...even reduced rifle stuff.

Have you all see that Hodgdon has a NEW IMR power called BLUE...it also has blue identifier
flakes in the mix just like regular Blue Dot.



I have to admit to never having used Blue Dot for anything, but have always heard it is useful stuff.

I recently cleared out my Dad's stuff and among other things, inherited a lot of stuff including a fair quantity of Blue Dot. I was planning to use it for heavy shotgun loads as I'm beginning to work on that, but most of the shooting I do anymore is cast rifle loads and there isn't a lot of data around using Blue Dot. I remember Paul had a formula for starting loads that was a percentage of the case capacity of Blue Dot which was universal, anyone remember that?

Sorry for the thread hijack.

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 7:33am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

I remember reading this posting, but forgot myself just what it amounted to. We certainly loose a lot of knowledge when our fellow handloaders pass on. Thankfully we have a bit of it still in print.

Posted: September 25 2013 at 11:38am | IP Logged      Report Post Quote Paul5388
Paul,
One of the sites I use for reduced loads is this: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm It will have mostly shotgun powders for cartridges used in Cowboy shoots. It has the various loads, by cartridge, in the left hand side bar.

I also use 40% of the max capacity of Blue Dot as a starting point on many applications. That is to fill an empty cartridge with Blue Dot and strike it off level with the mouth. Then use 40% of that weight as a starting point. DO NOT go over 60%!

I also used http://guns.connect.fi/gow/gunwriters.html article close to the bottom of the page, How To Handload Subsonic Rifle Cartridges (and survive) for the "Cat Sneeze Load".

Edited by Paul5388 on September 25 2013 at 11:39am


Edited by Ham Gunner on April 16 2017 at 7:37am


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: April 16 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Back in the Fifties, a long time ago, one of my older brothers killed particularly large Kodiak bear with a Ruger Blackhawk in .357, his comment to my dad was that when the had fired the last shot he was wishing that he had gotten the .44 Magnum. But the .357 did the job.

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Rex
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Posted: April 18 2017 at 12:52pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

John, I have found that I like 6 grains of Unique in a .357 case with the 357446 bullet for a nice general purpose load. I find at 74 years the load is far more accurate with the sun brightly shining on the face of my painted swing plate and the plate not in the shadows.
I haven't put it over the chrony but would guess around 1000 fps out of my 4".
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: April 19 2017 at 6:14am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Rex

6 gr. of Unique should give you nearly 1100 fps in a 4" barrel. The last time I chronographed that load it was in my 3" GP 100, the average was 1000 fps.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: May 16 2017 at 11:41am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Got to thinking about this. Way back in '51 the 357446 and 6gr Unique was THE load for modest .357Mag loads. That load was listed in '53, as well as rip-snorters with 2400. The top Unique load of '53 was 8gr of Unique. That's HOT!
I shoot 6gr Unique in a mag case in my mod P 4 3/4" and it flat outshoots anything else I've loaded in years.

Oh, my brother up in Sioux Falls wants more 357446 for his M19. Guess I'd better get busy casting. He said he's nailed two coyote that came in close calling one evening. That bullet laid em out one shot a piece. He's getting a 3" group at a hundred off a rolled up guncase across the hood of a truck. Real so-fist-tee-kated shootin' up on the reservation huh?

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