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stickboy
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Posted: 29 March 2017 at 3:42pm | IP Logged Quote stickboy

New reloader. I have read and stidied the subject.

I was comparing and contrasting the loads in two
different reloading manuals. lee Relaoding Manual 2nd
Ed and the lastest Hornady 10th Edition.

.233, 55 grain, Benchmark powder and bullet FMJ.
Different starting loads: 24 gr (3113 fps) vs 21.6 gr
(2800 fps). 24 gr Lee is close to the Hornady max load
(24.5 gr, 3100 fps). Lee references jacketed bullets
which according to their definition includes FMJ which
I will use. Hornady specifies their FMJBT W/C bullet
which looks the same.

Obviously, being new to the hand loading, I am going
to be somewhere less than 24 gr until I get more
experience. Chose 22 gr as the starting load.

Question: How much variation between reloading manuals
should one expect and is there not a methodology to
how these loads are calculated? How conservative are
these manuals when they report and publish loads?

Thanks

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richhodg66
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Posted: 29 March 2017 at 5:57pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

You'll find various differences between load manuals for a lot of reasons; different testing methods, different lots of powders, etc.

A guy can't have too many load manuals. If you have a disparity between them, err on the side of safety and start with the more conservative of the two. Of course, it goes without saying that you should begin with the starting loads in whatever manual you choose and work up carefully.

As to how conservative they are, well, I believe they stop short of what would be overloads, but you never know, and some guns are stronger than others, some things that don't seem significant can be (some powders are temperature sensitive enough to have significant differences because of it.

But don't over think this, use good, established load data, measure things carefully and start with the starting loads and work up and you'll be fine.

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joed
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Posted: 29 March 2017 at 6:31pm | IP Logged Quote joed

There are many reasons you'll see differences in charges.   Some
cases are thicker and don't hold as much powder creating higher
pressures. Some bullets have longer bearing surfaces raising
pressures so you'll see a lower charge.   

Primers make a difference too.   Pay attention to the components
used in the manuals to create the load.

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mikld
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 10:04am | IP Logged Quote mikld

Lee just reprints data from bullet manufacturers and powder
manufacturers (nuttin' wrong with that) and some data may be
older than others.Also Lee just uses "generic" descriptions of
bullets used; Jackets 125 gr or Lead 125 gr, etc. where as a
manufacturer will show/report data for specific components
(Hornady manuals show data for specific Hornady bullets).
Besides as mentioned above, the testing techs/labs probably
won't use exact same components; different lots of powder and
primers, different testing equipment and test parameters (PSI vs
CUP). Can be confusing for new reloaders but one major
reason to have a few different manuals and compare data.
When in doubt, use the lowers starting load...

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fire4200
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 10:48am | IP Logged Quote fire4200

Welcome to the club StickBoy

In all modern Centerfire rifles should use
jacketed bullets or at the bare minimum a
gas check at the bottom of the round
because as the powder Burns it will melt
the back of the bullet and leave a lot of
LaED in your Barrel and reduce the
performance of your ammo

The Hornady 55 grain FMJ/ct (Cannelure)
Its main purpose is to provide a Groove
two crimp the the neck of a brass into the
bullet to stop the bullets from walking in
or walking out when fired from a M16 or an
M4



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fire4200
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 10:57am | IP Logged Quote fire4200

StickBoy reloading modern sporting rifles
requires a little bit more diligence

Military brass IE 556 brass has about 10%
less capacity for pounder so you do not
want to go anywhere near the maximum that
is why there is three different sections
about 223 and 556 in the reloading manual
for Hornady

Most military 556 brass have the primers
crimped into the brass which makes it
harder to extract the primer and even
harder to successfully install a new
primer without crushing into forming

So there is an extra step you must do to
either drill out the the primer pocket or
my personal favorite is to swage it

I currently have the RCBS but I am going
to upgrade to the hornaday version because
it looks a lot easier to use both versions
require a press Dillon Precision makes a
table mounted swager that is really
excellent but anything dillon is pricey
but worth it





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fire4200
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 11:02am | IP Logged Quote fire4200

StickBoy the real question about load development I would
like to know is if you're going for fun or for accuracy

If you're going for fun I would use the least amount of
powder that's still gives 100% function of the rifle

If your going for precision in my experience the difference
between a 1 whole group and a 1-inch group at a hundred
yards could be as little as 0.3gn of powder
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stickboy
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 11:46am | IP Logged Quote stickboy

Thanks for the feedback to all. All your replies gives
me a bases on how to view loads and how to proceed.
Right now, I am shooting for fun (metal and paper
targets, spinners and cans), a plinker. I suspect later,
I will fine tune my loads for accuracy.

George

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fire4200
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Posted: 30 March 2017 at 3:22pm | IP Logged Quote fire4200

I remember my first ten rounds that I
loaded they were a complete and utter
failure I have done everything right
except for I had not see that the bullets
in far enough and they were touching the
riflings before the bolt closed
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RT58
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Posted: 31 March 2017 at 8:17am | IP Logged Quote RT58

stickboy wrote:
Question: How much variation between reloading manuals
should one expect and is there not a methodology to
how these loads are calculated? How conservative are
these manuals when they report and publish loads?

Thanks

"How much variation should one expect..."
Enough that it's not worth comparing them...

"...and is there not a methodology to how these loads are calculated?"
There is, technically, but it's not always followed by all the sources and even if it is there are so many variables in the testing that you should not expect anything as "given".

"How conservative are
these manuals when they report and publish loads?"
A little, but there are so many different things that can affect the results that it's not a good idea to push them.

I have a lot of manuals and don't really agree with the idea that you can't have too many of them. Modern manuals don't really have a lot of information about reloading other than the basics and their data. And a lot of people that have several of them seem to only look at the data and don't read anything else. And I really don't understand why a person that is often loading for one caliber really needs three or more manuals loaded with data for a hundred or so that he will never load for.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good manuals available, (this excludes Lees), and any "one" of them will suffice. If you want to look for more data, you can find a lot on line from many of the same sources that also make the manuals. There used to be books on the subject from very reliable authors, that were very valuable to the hobby. But apparently the number of reliable authors died out and the books turned into basic reloading books and then went away altogether.

The problem with the Lee manuals, as stated above, is they are compilations of other sources, which means you can't even compare the data in it from one line to the next. Then, to make matters worse, they will alter the starting loads to make it fit some of their powder dispensing equipment and you might end up with a starting load that is near, or the same as, the max. load. And lastly, their "basic loading information" is mostly sales hype for their products. But it could come in handy if you're using their equipment.

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