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STCM(SW)
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Posted: 31 March 2017 at 7:09pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

Smith & Wesson Corp., announced today the start of the “Savings You Can Carry” consumer mail-in rebate promotion. Several of the company’s most popular and sought after firearms are included in the promotion, including a $75 rebate on the M&P Shield®.

During the “Savings You Can Carry” validity period, consumers can receive $75 dollars back on the purchase of a NEW M&P Shield pistol, $50 dollars back on the purchase of a NEW M&P Bodyguard 380 pistol or $25 dollars back on the purchase of a NEW S&W® SD™ or SDVE™ pistol.

Consumers who wish to participate in the offer must complete and submit the rebate form, in one of three ways:
• Complete and submit the form online at www.smith-wesson.com/rebates.
• Download the rebate form at www.smith-wesson.com, complete and submit via U.S. mail.
• Obtain a rebate form at your local Smith & Wesson dealer, then complete and submit via U.S. Mail.
All submissions must include proof of purchase and be submitted on or before July 31, 2017.

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JD45
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Posted: 01 April 2017 at 9:32pm | IP Logged Quote JD45

I've shot one. Buy a Glock. Guns that sit too high in your hand are just stupid.
But most people never shoot, so monkey guns are ok I guess.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: 04 April 2017 at 2:34pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Odd, I own both an M&P Shield and a full sized M&P9 - I don't have much of a problem shooting them.

I'm not in the market for another one, but it's nice to have the info. Thanks Master Chief.

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Rigmarol
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Posted: 04 April 2017 at 8:38pm | IP Logged Quote Rigmarol

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

What the hell is a "Monkey Gun". Never heard of one.


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lovesrugers
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Posted: 05 April 2017 at 7:21am | IP Logged Quote lovesrugers

I love my Shield. Great little gun, just the right size to
conceal and yet still be usable. It is so usable that I
even run it in my clubs Steel challenge. Took 2nd last
month with it and 5th this month in the centerfire class.
This is against full size guns. Here is a short video
showing some runs with it and my Springfield XDM OSP.
https://youtu.be/v2Di5TzAQ
Fc

Jerry
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joed
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Posted: 05 April 2017 at 2:04pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.   Some things are like waving a red flag in front of a bull. I fought that urge for over a week.





Edited by joed on 05 April 2017 at 2:08pm


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joed
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Posted: 05 April 2017 at 3:40pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I to have a Shield in .40 S&W.   Nice gun but I've learned I like the .45
more then a .40.

Have a GLOCK 26 and Kimber Pro Carry II also.   Like them both. The
Shield will go with me on the bike as it's smaller.

Edited by joed on 05 April 2017 at 3:42pm


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twillis
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Posted: 06 April 2017 at 10:38am | IP Logged Quote twillis

I have shot Glocks but never owned one. They just don't point right in my hand. My S&W 40C on the other hand points well for me.

Edited by twillis on 06 April 2017 at 10:38am


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Ham Gunner
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Posted: 06 April 2017 at 10:16pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

I guess very few problems are really being found for partially unsupported chambers while using factory ammo. After a few times firing reloaded ammo in unsupported chambers however if is reported to have resulted in many guns being destroyed along with some injuries. I know of two locally, but without serious injury.

Since I would never want a weapon that I could not use reloaded ammo with, I would likely never want to own a Glock just for that reason. I suppose there are others as well that have partially unsupported chambers. How do reloaders deal with these types of weapons if they are capable of causing a bulge in the case?

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The_Shadow
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Posted: 07 April 2017 at 8:04am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

Ham Gunner with the Glocks there are many aftermarket barrel makers producing barrels with better chamber support and also
cartridge conversions as well. I do have some of the aftermarket barrels but I use my Glock 20SF 10mm to develop my ammo in
the factory barrel. Why do I do this?

I used to be fearful of the glocks and yes I have studied many that were wrecked with various ammo.

The Newer Factory 10mm Glock Barrels can show several things as related to pressures developed. The case will expand to
0.4340" before a so called "SMILE" will start at the feed ramp. The smooth round bulge can be reshaped by pass through
sizing but the "SMILE" can not and is a shearing of the casing itself.

Another thing I do with my Glock pistols is I use a "Non Captive Recoil" rod and springs. I take advantage of extra power
springs with heavier loadings, and they still work with lower powered ammo as well. The 22lbs is what I use over the
factory captive spring. Why? Also semi auto guns are very dynamic and as such can overcome their design capabilities.

Glock 20SF spring test Wolff Gun Springs 22lb RSA installed
It takes 6lb 4oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 22lb 9oz at lock open

Glock 20SF spring test Wolff Gun Springs 24lb RSA installed
It takes 7lb 6oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 24lb 1oz at lock open

Glock 20Sf Factory spring test
It takes 5lb 3oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
Full retraction at 18lb 0oz at lock open

22 lbs-Slightly over a pound difference 1lb 1oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
22 lbs-Slightly over a 2 pound difference 2lb 9oz at lock open
24 lbs-Slightly over a two pound difference 2lb 3oz to start the slide to move from the locked position
24 lbs-Slightly over a 6 pound difference 6lb 1oz at lock open

With the several cartridges I reload for I use Pass-Through Sizing to iron out the casing walls in areas that standard
sizing dies miss because of the radius of the carbide sizing ring and the area shell holder or plate.

For 10mm, 40S&W, 357Sig and 9x25 Dillon I use a LEE factory crimp die, remove the guts and use a push pin mounted in place
of a shell holder, to push the casing up and all the way through the carbide sizing ring. This sizes the entire casing from
case mouth to extractor rims with these straight wall cartridges where some actually expand just above the extractor groove
cut. This is where a good aftermarket chamber can help to prevent this condition.

I have also Pass Through sized 380ACP and 45ACP cases for the same reasons, using the appropriate LEE factory crimp die.

I have also seen poor quality brass cases which will not hold their resized dimensions. This has led to bullet setback
issues which is never a good situation and has caused many blown out casings and damage. Recently I was sent some
remanufactured ammo where I documented these very issues. The cases even thought they were resized would not hold the
bullets securely in place. It wasn't till after I did an annealing of the casing, that they would retain their dimensions.
These were PPU branded casings. They have a history of casing blow outs in many cartridge calibers.

I also see many people starting out their handloading using a progressive press these days.   They all want the haul ass go
fast process and they make plenty ammo and mistakes! Lately I have read about so many casing being blown out using
Titegroup Powder. It is a fast burning powder and can easily be doubled dropped and or have a powder bridge even in some
powder measures.

Enjoy the hobby & Be safe guys!   

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: 07 April 2017 at 8:26am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Wade, thanks a lot for the explanation.

It certainly helps me understand just what is going on with that type of weapon. I have never owned a Glock or Sig and in fact the only auto's that I have owned were Colt 1911's, a Ruger P90, and a Tanfoglio Witness. None of them seemed to have any issues with brass failures.

I am going to copy and paste your response and send it to my Son to give to his friend who had a Glock mishap. His friend is using a Dillon progressive press I believe.

Thanks again, Rick

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RT58
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Posted: 07 April 2017 at 2:36pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

I'm not a Glock expert or even a fan, mostly due to the way they feel and their grip angles. I do own a 20 but am not impressed with it.

When most of the officers at my old dept. were carrying them, some were concerned about the catastrophic disasters they'd heard about and asked for my opinion. From what I could find at the time, the problem wasn't with the unsupported chambers as much as the ability to fire while out of battery. Glocks warning to not use lead bullets stemmed from the polygonal rifling in their barrels which would shave lead near the chamber and would keep the ammunition from completely entering the chamber, thus giving no support to the critical area of the case body in front of the web.

This could also be an issue if loading bulged brass in a progressive loader, depending on the type of sizing dies used.
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joed
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Posted: 07 April 2017 at 3:00pm | IP Logged Quote joed

Wade was spot on.   I bought an aftermarket barrel for my GLOCK
when I shot lead with it.   

Interesting info on the springs and the pass thru dies.    I looked into
them a short while ago after reading about them on the internet.   

One surprise is there are other 9mm autos out there besides GLOCK
with unsupported chambers.

When I first got my model 26 I was leery of it but after 8 years it has
never failed.   No misfeeds or anything.    

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The_Shadow
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Posted: 08 April 2017 at 8:04am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

The polygonal rifling in the glock factory barrels can
cause the softer cast bullets to smear, but it is
mainly because the bores tend to run too large for the
bullets. I size my 10mm to 0.4015" with good lube.

For example some have measured their Glock Factory
10mm barrel bores at 0.4015" - 0.4020" and if you are
running cast bullet at 0.4010" they don't get much
down the barrel without smearing the lead.

That's why the aftermarket barrels help out.

The polymer coated bullets are another thing to help
prevent the lead smearing in the Glock Factory
barrels. These coating when applied correctly are
very tough and prevent the lead from contact to the
barrel.

I do shoot cast & lubed bullets from my factory
barrels but I have on occasions found some smearing.
I clean them after every range session. I am going
the try the powder polymer paint process someday!

Glocks are reliable pistols, the loose chambers add to
the reliability to feed. The trade off of weight from
the poly frame allows more cartridge weight. Yes they
don't fit well with everyone, the newer Gen 4 models
have interchangeable grip panels to help.

One other reason I carry one is, if ever I have to use
mine in an altercation and it is held as evidence, it
will not be one of my more expensive pistols.

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RT58
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Posted: 08 April 2017 at 6:47pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

They are reliable and very accurate too, and the idea of 15 rounds of 10mm ammo sounds comforting. But the part about firing out of battery and the fact that that will destroy a plastic receiver sort of makes me cringe. I do keep my handguns clean, but that Murphy guy seems to like hanging around me.
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STCM(SW)
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Posted: 08 April 2017 at 10:11pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

For the record, only have 2 striker fire pistol's in the house. A Springfield XD 45 ACP and the wife's S&W Shield 9mm.
I just like steel pistol's and revolver's.
A S&W revolver or 1911/BHP/PPK is what I CC.

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KinleyWater
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Posted: 09 April 2017 at 4:43am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

The two I have listed are my only two. Still, I wouldn't mind a Shield of my own for warm weather. Might maybe I'll get another.

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twillis
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Posted: 10 April 2017 at 9:42am | IP Logged Quote twillis

Rigmarol wrote:
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.

What the hell is a "Monkey Gun". Never heard of one.


I'm still waiting to hear what a "Monkey Gun" is too Rig!

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: 10 April 2017 at 12:20pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

A buddy of mine just ordered a S&W M&P Sheild and it will end up costing him about $250 total after the rebate. Great deal for sure.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: 10 April 2017 at 1:03pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Well as the folks at S&W made this generous offer, those that prefer their weapons can save some money. Those that prefer other makes can buy the weapons of their choice. I think it's pretty good of the S&W folks to make this rebate available. Nice to see a firearms company doing this and promoting things to boost the sport.

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