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#1Grandson
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Posted: April 25 2017 at 11:02am | IP Logged Quote #1Grandson

Has any one heard of match monster bullets I'm working on some loads
for a friend of mines model seven .308 and he was asking about them
I've never herd of them and I'm kinda leaning towards the 168gr sierra
matchkings
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LAH
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Posted: April 25 2017 at 11:16am | IP Logged Quote LAH

Saw them advertised somewhere but that's all I know about
them.

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M700
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Posted: April 26 2017 at 4:22pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Model 7 is a great hunting rifle, but not really a "match rifle."

Why the interest in match/target bullets? Just curious. I'd work up a good hunting bullet load for that little rascal if it was mine. Probably with the 165 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip or the 165 gr Sierra Gameking.

But back to your recommendation, YES, the 168 grain Sierra Matchking is a great choice for accurate loads. As is the 155 grain version.

Regards, Guy
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M700
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Posted: April 26 2017 at 4:24pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Looks like those Match Monster bullets are produced by Nosler, so I'd tend to trust them. Probably good bullets. I've been using Noslers since the 1970's, and they've proven very good.

Guy
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#1Grandson
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Posted: April 26 2017 at 9:05pm | IP Logged Quote #1Grandson

I completely understand makeing a good hunting load but the guy
wants a 1000 yard Rifle out of it so the only thing I can think of doing is
make a good match load
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Old Ranger
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Posted: April 27 2017 at 10:45am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I completely understand. Not everyone is made outta money and can't afford high dollar gear and guns.
I have only one rifle. A 2009 Marlin XL7C in .30'06. Being a retired gunsmith among other talents, I modified it with modesty priced items and built it to shoot rather well. Rifle, scope, and additional parts came to $650. The smithing I did would cost someone another $350 or more. But it cloverleafs at 100 and stays under 2.5" at 400 on a still day and I don't wiggle from the remnants of the effects of the last minor stroke.

Often ya work with what ya got.

And I too use 168 BTHP for my distance shooting.

Enjoy loading with your buddy and I hope you can build him a load that'll knock his socks off! And print little groups.

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M700
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Posted: April 27 2017 at 8:31pm | IP Logged Quote M700

#1Grandson wrote:
I completely understand makeing a good hunting load but the guy
wants a 1000 yard Rifle out of it so the only thing I can think of doing is
make a good match load


He doesn't have a 1,000 yard match rifle.

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safari100
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Posted: April 27 2017 at 8:42pm | IP Logged Quote safari100

Guy,
He can do the best with what he has and let the bullet holes fall where they may. Jeesh not everybody is flush. Wish him the best and leave it!

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#1Grandson
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Posted: April 27 2017 at 10:09pm | IP Logged Quote #1Grandson

Guy,
I do realize that gun may not be capable of doing but I was asked to try
and if not I should be able to get a vary good load as #1sons model 600
6mm will punch 1/4" at a hundred but it will at least be a fun process
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#1Grandson
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Posted: April 27 2017 at 10:11pm | IP Logged Quote #1Grandson

I don't know why when I post it spaces out like that
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joed
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Posted: April 28 2017 at 3:17am | IP Logged Quote joed

#1Grandson wrote:
I don't know why when I post it spaces out
like that
It does that to me when I'm on my
Mac or cellphone.

This is very old software on this forum.   What you can do when you
get the edit box is put the cursor on the bottom right corner of the
box and stretch it to the right, that will solve the problem.

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RT58
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Posted: April 28 2017 at 9:18am | IP Logged Quote RT58

M700 wrote:
#1Grandson wrote:
I completely understand makeing a good hunting load but the guy
wants a 1000 yard Rifle out of it so the only thing I can think of doing is
make a good match load


He doesn't have a 1,000 yard match rifle.


A 1,000 yard match rifle and a 1,000 yard rifle shooting match ammo are two completely different animals.

And two other different animals are "match bullets" and "1,000 yard match bullets".

Edited by RT58 on April 28 2017 at 9:50am
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LAH
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Posted: April 28 2017 at 9:44am | IP Logged Quote LAH

#1Grandson wrote:
I completely understand makeing a good
hunting load but the guy
wants a 1000 yard Rifle out of it so the only thing I can
think of doing is
make a good match load


Load him good ammo & have him show you the target. Should
be interesting.


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Ham Gunner
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Posted: April 28 2017 at 10:50am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

If truly wishing to attempt 1,000 yards, the bullet velocity must stay above supersonic all the way out to the target. That would limit the bullet weights to likely include only the heavier weights and probably would include the "Monster Bullets", although I am not familiar with that bullet itself.

I have heard of some shooters getting very good accuracy with a model '7'. The length of the barrel normally offered in the '7' might limit the useful yardage though.

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M700
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Posted: April 29 2017 at 7:09am | IP Logged Quote M700

Oh heck ya, the Model 7 is a great rifle. I'd love to own one myself - and yes - they can be very accurate.

I was just trying to understand what the heck was the goal. It's a good hunting rifle, and we're looking at something called a "match monster" bullet which turns out to be a match type bullet built by Nosler.

Then 1,000 yards gets thrown into the mix...

So not the normal discussion about whitetail or black bear loads, or match loads for match shooting from match rifles... Interesting mix, and frankly, I like the idea. I had to look up those match monster bullets as I'd never heard of 'em before.

Guy
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M700
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Posted: April 29 2017 at 8:57am | IP Logged Quote M700

#1Grandson wrote:
I completely understand makeing a good hunting load but the guy
wants a 1000 yard Rifle out of it so the only thing I can think of doing is
make a good match load


Got it.

Okay - I've done a lot of shooting with the good ol' .308 Win. Will it reach out to 1,000 yards? YES! Is it the best tool for that chore? No, but it can do the job. Here's some more thoughts that might help out:

The standard 168 grain Sierra Matchking is a great bullet, but was designed for 300 yard competition. The Nosler 168 gr Match bullet isn't too different. Both of them have a problem in that at about 900 yards (depending on load, barrel, etc) they slow down, going trans-sonic, and they typically don't handle that transition well.

So you can have a great 600 yard load, that doesn't do worth a hoot at 1,000 yards, even going sideways through the target, or missing an entire target. There's an old saying among .308 shooters at matches: "Friends don't let friends shoot 1,000 yards with 168's." Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Two workarounds come to mind:

1. Go with the heavier 175's - they'e made to solve the problem.
2. Consider the 155's. They were designed for Palma competition which is .308's at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards.

But normally the Palma rifles have a rather long barrel, mine had a 30" Krieger.

I think that working with the shorter barreled Model 7, I'd be tempted to go with the longer, heavier match bullets and see how they did at long ranges for ya, but it might be worth trying the 155's too.

A great article on loading the .308 Win is here:

308 Win article

Another thing to watch for is the scope & mount. A standard setup is quite likely to run out of elevation long before hitting 1,000 yards. Or even 600 yards possibly...

So, if it's a one-piece scope base, consider shimming the rear of the base with a thin piece of brass. Brass shims are often available at hardware stores. Some gunshops have them. I believe Brownells still carries them.

That will build in a little elevation and can help. Or, if he's got the money, a "long range" base can be purchased with additional elevation built in. Often these bases (or the shims) will not allow the scope to be zeroed at 100 yards, but at 200 yards you should be able to get a zero.

It's fun pushing a rifle for the best accuracy it can offer! Enjoy your journey and please let us know how it goes.

Regards, Guy
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LAH
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Posted: April 29 2017 at 9:09am | IP Logged Quote LAH

Quote:
I was just trying to understand what the heck was
the goal.


+1

Quote:
Both of them have a problem in that at about 900
yards (depending on load, barrel, etc) they slow down,
going trans-sonic, and they typically don't handle that
transition well.


Not very well at all.

Quote:
A standard setup is quite likely to run out of
elevation long before hitting 1,000 yards.


This is hardly mentioned by the unwashed.

Quote:
It's fun pushing a rifle for the best accuracy it
can offer! Enjoy your journey and please let us know how
it goes.


Exactly, load the ammo & ask for a report. It will no
doubt be interesting.

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