Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc
General Discussion
 Handloads.Com Forum : General Discussion
Subject Topic: reading handload data charts Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Kirk357
Newcomer


Avatar

Joined: May 03 2017
Location: Holly Hill Fl
Posts: 14
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 06 2017 at 6:32am | IP Logged Quote Kirk357

RT58 - I have found that to be true, I'm dipping not scooping and
I've noticed I consistently get a weight that's a little less than what
Lee says I should get - but it is consistent - so it works. Plus I
confirm with the scale.

With the little hand press I'm using I can sit outside for decapping,
sizing, priming, and crimping... which I am enjoying... but I can see a
bigger better press in my future!

Thanks again for all the help.

Edited by Kirk357 on May 06 2017 at 6:37am
Back to Top View Kirk357's Profile Search for other posts by Kirk357
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 321
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 08 2017 at 7:46am | IP Logged Quote RT58

I've used Lees "knucklebuster" and their comparable "C" press when I was loading at work, they are handy, but they aren't quite as good as most other presses. They have a lot of flex and no "cam-over" which can affect consistency.

I forgot to mention that Ideal was taken over by Lyman a long time ago so if you see a #55 powder measure with the Lyman name it's the same thing. They are better than most measures if you need very small charges of powder.

Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
Kirk357
Newcomer


Avatar

Joined: May 03 2017
Location: Holly Hill Fl
Posts: 14
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 08 2017 at 8:12am | IP Logged Quote Kirk357

Can you explain what you mean by "a lot of flex" and no "cam-over"
in terms of how that might effect my reloading. Is there something I
need to adjust for or be aware of. So far it has seemed to work okay
for me. Of course I'm just loading 38 special and 357 magnum.

Thanks for the helo!
Back to Top View Kirk357's Profile Search for other posts by Kirk357
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 321
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 08 2017 at 12:24pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

For your purposes they won't make a lot of difference. If you ever get into reloading bottleneck rifle cartridges then they might.

Flex is related to the rigidity of the press, both the frame design and the linkage, and they are not very solid. Cam-over is when you lower your press handle and at the bottom of the stroke it reaches a point where it is locked into place. If you lower your handle and push down on the ram it will raise the handle back up, presses that have a cam-over won't do that.

The idea is to have the dies do the exact same thing every time you use them. If the resistance varies and there is a lot of play, they won't.
Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
Paul B.
Senior Member




Joined: March 12 2002
Posts: 2343
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 08 2017 at 3:24pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

My pet loads for the .38 Spl. are 3.1 gr. of W231 and a 148 gr. Cast
wadcutter. It's a ball powder but no need for a magnum primer. For a
158 gr. cast semi-wadcutter, I like 5.0 gr. of Unique
I like 5.0 gr. of Unique and a158 gr. cast SWC for a plinking load in the
.357 Mag. and 14.0 gr. of Alliant #2400 with he same bullet for a full
power load. The original 2400 load and 158 gr. bullet was 15.5 gr. but
the load was reduce a while back. Never was a problem in my S&W
M28.
Seems about that same time .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum factory
loads were also reduced. The reasoning I've heard was full power
loads in 57 were damaging throats on the S&W M19/66 "K" frame
guns. Not sure why Elmer's load was reduced by two full grains but his
load would tear hell out of my S&W 629. It went back to the factory
twice being messed up even with the 20.0 gr. 2400 load and Elmer's
bullet. The gun is in semi-retirement. I use Ruger Redhawks these
days for full power .44 Mag. loads. Frankly, I never tried for a close to
full power load in the .357 with Unique, much preferring 2400 for that
purpose.
Paul B.
Back to Top View Paul B.'s Profile Search for other posts by Paul B.
 
Kirk357
Newcomer


Avatar

Joined: May 03 2017
Location: Holly Hill Fl
Posts: 14
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 13 2017 at 4:05pm | IP Logged Quote Kirk357

What would you consider a full power load for the 357 magnum with
Unique?

The Alliant site shows
1.) 6 grains for a 158 grain lswc
2.) 9.6 for a 125 grain GDHP

I have 158 grain lswc and 125 grain JSPs. Are the JSP similar/same
as GDHP?



Edited by Kirk357 on May 13 2017 at 4:08pm
Back to Top View Kirk357's Profile Search for other posts by Kirk357
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 186
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 28 2017 at 4:53am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Kirk, I use more or less the exact process you are describing and it works just fine. I have a single stage press, powder measure, etc - but no bench. So for right now, I am using the LEE hand press I bought years ago to get started in reloading. I use the dipper that comes with the dies, for convenience, and dump the powder out on a digital scale. Once I get the weight I want, I charge the case. In fact, I just did 50 rounds of .308 last night using that very method.

Things I have found:
-Keep your pressure consistent when closing the hand loader or you get different bullet seating depths (at least on mine. - Make sure your locking ring is tight too for the same reason.

-With just tumbled brass, I use a dry cotton swab to make sure the case is free of media. It's a bigger deal with bottle-neck cartridges, but media in the case can get run up inside the die and make the next sizing difficult; not to mention it will scratch your brass up.

-I have found that on the chart which comes with the LEE die sets, the charges are sometimes lower than in my manuals. I started out reloading .38 Special with plated bullets and never found a low charge to be an issue (as long as it was enough to push the bullet all the way out of the barrel); I think that is one of the beautiful things about reloading for revolvers.

-Keep a set of calipers handy for measuring.

I'm still a bit new to this as well, and I don't doubt your intelligence, but hopefully I've been able to pass along something useful.

Kinley



__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
Kirk357
Newcomer


Avatar

Joined: May 03 2017
Location: Holly Hill Fl
Posts: 14
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 28 2017 at 10:01am | IP Logged Quote Kirk357

As a new reloader I need some advice on how to best deal with the
differences Iím finding for reloading recipes. Here are two seemingly
reliable sources of data.

1. The Alliant website data for Unique shows 4.7 as a maximum load
for a 158 Speer LSWC

2. The Hornady (10th edition 2016) reloading manual shows 4.2 as a
maximum load for a SWC

Iím loading 38 special with 158 grain LSWC for target shooting I
donít mind erring on the safe side but I would like to also be able to
shoot full power loads. How would you approach these differences?

Once again Ė thanks for all the help You have all offered. I have
loaded my first 900 rounds!


Back to Top View Kirk357's Profile Search for other posts by Kirk357
 
Ham Gunner
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Ozark, Missouri
Posts: 5263
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 28 2017 at 11:20am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

First I will have to say that not all swagged or cast bullets are the same, even when weighing the same. That also goes for jacketed bullets. Differences in the amounts of the bullet that contacts the bore differs from maker to maker and the diameters of the bullets as well as the depth of seating can all contribute to differences in chamber pressure when using the same charge. Each test is conducted using different guns and instruments. Thus the differences in published loading data.

The only Speer manuals that I have are my old #6 and #8 Speer manuals published in 1964 and 1970. Many claim that the #8 in particular had very generous limits on it's maximum loads. Comparing it's charts to most manuals today, that is usually the case, at least in many instances. I have found some charts that go along with what is published today, however.

Anyway, Speer in 1970 gave a maximum of 6.0gr. Unique with their 158gr. Speer SWC or RN bullets that they were selling at that time. Their starting load was 5.0gr. of Unique which is certainly higher than what you have given as maximum loads in both your chart examples. The 1964 manual gives 5.5gr. for max and 4.5 for starting load with Unique for the 158gr. SWC.

Lyman's latest manual shows around 4.5gr. as being their recommended maximum load for Unique using one of their 158gr. SWC cast bullets.

But there are some lightweight .38 Special revolvers out there and to be safe I am sure that most manuals published today are shaving back on the max. load limit for liability reasons in this lawsuit-happy modern world and perhaps because of more modern pressure measuring instruments.

The powder itself is supposedly the same as it has been for almost ever. Tests using some of the old original Hercules Unique stored since it's beginning tested almost identical a few years back when they took it out of water storage and compared it to Unique produced today.

For what it is worth, I have shot likely 10,000 rds. and more of Lyman #358477 cast 158gr. SWC bullets with a charge of 5.2gr. of Unique in .38 Special. The cases drop out of the cylinders on their own and there is little case expansion. I do not own any lightweight .38 Special revolvers, but if I did, perhaps I would crank my 5.2gr. of Unique back to around 4.5gr. for my Lyman 358477 cast, but it would be a shame as the 5.2gr. load is a tack driver.

Edited by Ham Gunner on May 28 2017 at 11:46am


__________________
73 de n0ubx Rick - NRA BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER/VFW LIFE MEMBER - A government big enough to GIVE you
everything you want, is strong enough to TAKE everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson

Back to Top View Ham Gunner's Profile Search for other posts by Ham Gunner
 
Kirk357
Newcomer


Avatar

Joined: May 03 2017
Location: Holly Hill Fl
Posts: 14
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 28 2017 at 11:58am | IP Logged Quote Kirk357

Thanks - Ham Gunner, That's helpful.

It makes sense that some bullets could have different characteristics
and thus different pressures etc... our course it isn't always easy to
find load data for the
exact set of components you have on hand.

I have three pistols in 38/357

1. My Grandfather's S&W model 10 circa 1960s, 38 special.

2. My best friend's father's old backup from his law enforcement
days. A circa 1970s Charter Arms undercover snub nosed @ 16 oz.
in 38 special

3. My Ruger Security Six (6" barrel) 357 magnum

I've been sticking to the Ruger as i am learning to hand load - I am
confident it can handle a pretty good margin of error on the 38
special! I don't want to harm either of the other guns but I would like
to shoot them more as confidence and knowledge grows.

Thanks again

Edited by Kirk357 on May 29 2017 at 7:12am
Back to Top View Kirk357's Profile Search for other posts by Kirk357
 

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

<< Prev Page of 2
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version
Copyright ©2001-2008 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.1875 seconds.