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HeavyBrew
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Posted: June 30 2017 at 8:41pm | IP Logged Quote HeavyBrew

Bio: I've been reloading for 6 years almost all popular calibers. I have had
three squibs and all were in the first few months of reloading. I am a very
careful reloader and use only verified loads. I use a Hornady Progressive
press and my reloading room is in my garage in the humid city of Houston
Texas. Today something happened that I cannot explain.

I recently upgraded to a Lab Radar to test my velocities of some 45ACP I
recently loaded. So I grabbed some
recent handloads of 45ACP. Two were loaded last month and one loaded
last week. To my total amazement. The first box was 4 squibs in a row. I
switched to the other box and 3 Squibs in a row. Then the box I reloaded
last week with Brand new unopened powder. Squib, squib Squib. I got home
from the range and removed the bullet from all three test boxes. All had
powder. I then took the powder out of two of the rounds and then
compared it to brand new Unopened jug of the same powder (Tight Group)
and did a burn test. Both powders appeared to burn at the same speed.

So in six years, humidity hasn't affected my hand loads. I had powder in the
loads, it appeared to burn just fine. WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TODAY?

Any thoughts?



Edited by HeavyBrew on June 30 2017 at 8:52pm


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Rex
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 4:17am | IP Logged Quote Rex

I've had a few FTF from bum primers but nothing like that. Someone with more knowledge will jump in here soon.
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nhblaze
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 7:23am | IP Logged Quote nhblaze

When you say squib round, complete fail to fire or
the bullet got stuck in the barrel or fell 10 away ?

I can only guess on bullet weight but Hodgdon says
4.0 to 4.8 grs of Titegroup with a 230 gr bullet.

What did the powder in the cases weigh ?

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HeavyBrew
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 9:01am | IP Logged Quote HeavyBrew

Update:
Squibs as in stuck in barrel or shot 10 feet in from of barrel.

I again, more carefully, recovered the powder from these three test groups.

Hornady 230gr LRN (all Lead) TG 4.8gr (recovered 4.7) tested & burned fine to
my eye.

Hornady 185gr XTP (didn't have load data) but recovered 5.4gr (Tight group)
Burned fine to my eyes.

Hornady 200gr XTP TG 4.8gr (recovered 4.7gr) burned fine to my eyes.

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nhblaze
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 12:15pm | IP Logged Quote nhblaze

My first guess is what type of crimp do you use ?
They tell you very little crimp on a 45 acp, but
a good crimp should be applied, but not a roll crimp.
Lee factory crimp die works good for me, but any of the taper crimp dies would be fine.

My thought is there is not enough bullet tension
to get the charge up to full pressure. How hard was it to remove the bullets ?

Bad primers could also cause this with not enough
energy to ignite the charge, but a small charge of
Titegroup shouldn't take much. Have you used these primers in other ammo that worked fine ?

You used powder from two different containers with
problems from both are the two powders from the same
lot, there is a number somewhere on the bottles.
Possible both bottles of powder are bad but not my first guess.

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Ham Gunner
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 12:45pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Since even a freshly opened can of powder produced similar problems as the older powder and both burned decently enough after pulling bullets, I would think that the powder is likely not the problem.

I would suggest that you prime up a dozen or so cases with the same lot of primers and fire them empty in the pistol to see if the primers all pop decently enough and sound about the same strength or if they are erratic.

Check to see that the primers are seated deeply enough that they do not extend out beyond the head. Shallow seated primers can cause erratic ignition.

You might also mic all the cases to make sure that somehow they have not become a bit short. They should all be somewhere around .898 give or take a few. In a .45 acp, they normally do not grow in length but can get shorter actually. In some pistols excessively short cases can be a problem. In 1911 types with extractor support, not so much.

Beyond that, I really have no guess as to the problem. Even high humidity should not cause powder burn failures, especially with fresh powder.

Let us know what you find out or if you still have problems. Has me stumped.

Edited by Ham Gunner on July 01 2017 at 12:52pm


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RT58
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 3:06pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

HeavyBrew wrote:
I got home
from the range and removed the bullet from all three test boxes. All had
powder. I then took the powder out of two of the rounds and then
compared it to brand new Unopened jug of the same powder (Tight Group)
and did a burn test. Both powders appeared to burn at the same speed.


Now I'm the one that's confused. Were you able to check any of your squibs to see if there was powder in them or were you checking rounds from the same boxes?
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joed
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 5:09pm | IP Logged Quote joed

Uhh, I'm going with primers.   All loaded from the same batch of
primers?    If so there is the problem.

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USA Joe
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 5:26pm | IP Logged Quote USA Joe

Hi Just a thought are using a powder check die & have
you checked the powder drop tubes!    Joe


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dahlin
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 6:52pm | IP Logged Quote dahlin

Just a thought but have you checked the flash hole You have a very strange problem any time I have experienced a squib load most of the powder was burned. Randy
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HeavyBrew
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Posted: July 01 2017 at 8:51pm | IP Logged Quote HeavyBrew

Guys, I had some new insight today from testing and believe that the
problem is the result of reloading brass that was not completely dried.

I would elaborate further, but this forum is so annoyingly slow to type on.
It's like every letter I type takes a second to print. Im sorry, but it is driving
me crazy. It was like this yesterday and the same this morning and tonight.
Is this just me that is experiencing this?

I really appreciate all you wisdom and thoughts towards solving my issue.
but I believe I have it figured out.

You guys were awesome to offer all the advise!

Happy reloading and shooting!

-HeavyBrew-

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The_Shadow
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Posted: July 02 2017 at 6:49am | IP Logged Quote The_Shadow

I fear that the wet tumbling methods has been the cause
of many squibs. Those small pins can also get stuck
inside the cases in various ways to include, that they
dry stuck/glued inside the cases if they don't come out
when removed from the wash.

I know that I have found things inside range brass,
small rocks, other smaller brass cases, spiders & bugs
and other foreign matter like sand/dirt, grass, etc.

Those cases with smaller caliber necks can hold tumbling
media inside and require good inspections...

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STCM(SW)
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Posted: July 04 2017 at 11:04pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

The_Shadow wrote:
I fear that the wet tumbling methods has been the cause
of many squibs. Those small pins can also get stuck
inside the cases in various ways to include, that they
dry stuck/glued inside the cases if they don't come out
when removed from the wash.

I know that I have found things inside range brass,
small rocks, other smaller brass cases, spiders & bugs
and other foreign matter like sand/dirt, grass, etc.

Those cases with smaller caliber necks can hold tumbling
media inside and require good inspections...


That is a common problem that I have seen.

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HeavyBrew
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Posted: July 08 2017 at 9:06pm | IP Logged Quote HeavyBrew

Just a final update to all of you who had freely shared you knowledge with
me.

I have since done test samples with all my 45 ACP and identified about 300
rounds of ammo that was bad. I removed all the bullets (lots of fun) and
then begun to test the various components.

I loaded the original brass with original primers and original pulled bullets
with New unopened powder. All samples shot just fine. I did not throw away
the old powder because I truly believe the powder was good and I had damp
brass. I put the original powder in a new container with about 5 packets of
silica. Ill test the original powder later.

Thanks for all you insight!

-Heavy


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RT58
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Posted: July 09 2017 at 10:31am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Smokeless powders have moisture in them when new. If you dry them out more than they are supposed to be it will raise chamber pressures. If you are using max. loads you might want to drop it down a couple of grains to make sure it's not too high, then you can work it back up.
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