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Atavist
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Posted: 07 August 2017 at 5:17pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

M700 wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of Garrett Cartridges.

Garrett has been making some real fine .45/70 ammo for a long time. Several excellent articles on the .45/70 and the .44 mag handgun for stopping big game on that web site. Big emphasis on the flat-nose hard cast lead bullets for best performance.


Garrett Cartidges


Awesome... i'm on the Garrett site now... thanks for the tip.

When you can, take time to read the safari stories by Vince Lupo on that same web site. He did some great stuff with his .45/70 rifle!

Regards, Guy
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Ranch 13
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Posted: 07 August 2017 at 6:28pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqs543qxTHE

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Atavist
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Posted: 08 August 2017 at 11:03am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Ranch 13 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqs543qxTHE


Nice!
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Atavist
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Posted: 08 August 2017 at 11:07am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Definitely some iteresting info on the Garret site... i'm assuming the lower penetration of faster bullets is related to the accelerated expansion... makes sense I suppose though a bit counter intuitive.

Just ordered 10 pounds of gellatin powder.... going to get some molds set up with 10oz leather in front and either elk bone (if i can find donations) or wood interrupts to try and best simulate penetration in a heavy boned animal. Will be a while before i have time to get it all set up but will be a fun experiment.
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M700
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Posted: 08 August 2017 at 5:30pm | IP Logged Quote M700

I thought that was one of the most important things I picked up from those articles years ago...

That higher velocity can very well mean reduced penetration in game.

Guy
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Buffalogun
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Posted: 09 August 2017 at 5:53am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Atavist,

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then this photo may help with the wonderment of cast bullet penetration and expansion. I use it as a gauge, more or less.

This is LEE's C457-500-F bullet designed for the .45-70. Before and after it was sent into the neck of the bison bull in my avatar.

The neck shot was at the guides request and the bullet struck the second vertebrae from the skull. The bullet was found just under the hide on the off side.

The 513 gr. bullet was cast of 1 to 20 tin/lead alloy and exited the barrel at 1,600 fps. This load would be similar to Garrett's 540 gr. Hammerhead load at 1,550 fps., although I don't know the Hammerhead's BHN. The bull was approx. 65 yds. away.

I've read the buffalo hunters used a 1 to 16 alloy.

1 to 20 alloy has a hardness of about BHN 10 and is not considered a hard alloy as alloys can be hardened past BHN 30. The problem of very hard alloys is the alloy can be brittle and the bullet can shatter upon impact with tough bones. Penetration would be greatly affected. Straight lead will flatten like a pie plate.

The 1 to 20 was a good alloy for my use. It held together and punched through a lot of muscle and bone.



Would a 405 gr. bullet perform as well as the 500? Would extra speed make up for the lesser bullet mass of the lighter bullet? You'll have to decide.


Mike

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Atavist
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Posted: 09 August 2017 at 7:41am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Thanks for the data and pic Mike... Looks like my 535 load just shy of 1600fps is a good combo... might even tone it down a bit.
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M700
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Posted: 09 August 2017 at 8:11am | IP Logged Quote M700

Nice!
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Ranch 13
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Posted: 10 August 2017 at 8:58am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Atavist wrote:
Definitely some iteresting info on the Garret site... i'm
assuming the lower penetration of faster bullets is related to the accelerated
expansion... makes sense I suppose though a bit counter intuitive.

Just ordered 10 pounds of gellatin powder.... going to get some molds set up
with 10oz leather in front and either elk bone (if i can find donations) or wood
interrupts to try and best simulate penetration in a heavy boned animal. Will
be a while before i have time to get it all set up but will be a fun experiment.


You might want to think about going to the grocery store or local butcher shop
and getting some beef femur bones. Uncooked bone , and bone that has not
dried out will give a different result than cooked or dried bone.


__________________
The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it doesn't go where its supposed to.
GUSA #6
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php
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Atavist
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Posted: 10 August 2017 at 1:23pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Ranch 13 wrote:
[QUOTE=Atavist] Definitely some iteresting info on the Garret site... i'm
assuming the lower penetration of faster bullets is related to the accelerated
expansion... makes sense I suppose though a bit counter intuitive.

Just ordered 10 pounds of gellatin powder.... going to get some molds set up
with 10oz leather in front and either elk bone (if i can find donations) or wood
interrupts to try and best simulate penetration in a heavy boned animal. Will
be a while before i have time to get it all set up but will be a fun experiment.


You might want to think about going to the grocery store or local butcher shop
and getting some beef femur bones. Uncooked bone , and bone that has not
dried out will give a different result than cooked or dried bone.


   great idea. I've got a buddy who is a taxidermist... might also hit him up for some shoulder blades and other large bone sections.
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