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Atavist
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 7:26am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Great info Rem1875, thanks... annoyingly
it's almost impossible to get your hands
on any of these replicas locally... one of
the local shops has a few cimarron 1873s
but that's it.. anything else is luck of
the draw catching it as/if it passes
through in the used cabinet.
Seems tacti-cool is the rage now and the
pistol cabinet is full of dozens of sub
models of every polymer semi-auto... the
problem is probably that we have a strong
"Practical Shooting" club that does the
whole totally impractical John Wick wanna
be training and very small SASS. Each to
their own it is what it is...I'll keep
checking weekly.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 9:33am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Atavist wrote:
... the
problem is probably that we have a strong
"Practical Shooting" club that does the
whole totally impractical John Wick wanna
be training ...


So, does this mean I should stop carrying around a roll of fake gold coins?

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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 11:57am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I like impractical shooting!

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Atavist
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 12:16pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Old Ranger wrote:
I like impractical
shooting!


Me too actually... I just find it humerus
that they call it "practical" shooting at
least the cowboy shooters call it what it
is, sport shooting.
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REM1875
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 3:07pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I'm so damned impractical I had to look up John Wick
and I like Keanu Reeves in the things I have seen him
in.

As far as impractical shooting- 2 scenes enter my mind
-Marshal Matt Dillion as every episode of "Gunsmoke"
starts and the great Arab sword fighter in Indiana
Jones.

The two greatest teachers of sword fighting were
killed in street brawls in the 17th century.

It's nice to be prepared but a timely, accurately
placed shot is what wins the day.

In other words I'd rather be lucky than good and luck
gets a huge boost from being well trained......

I may not like plastics guns a lot but I do respect
them every bit as much as steel guns

Edited by REM1875 on August 20 2017 at 3:08pm


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RECURVE
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 3:35pm | IP Logged Quote RECURVE

I watch Mr. Dillon every day. That's the kind of law we
need now
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Atavist
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 4:22pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

REM1875 wrote:
I'm so damned impractical
I had to look up John Wick
and I like Keanu Reeves in the things I
have seen him
in.

As far as impractical shooting- 2 scenes
enter my mind
-Marshal Matt Dillion as every episode of
"Gunsmoke"
starts and the great Arab sword fighter in
Indiana
Jones.

The two greatest teachers of sword
fighting were
killed in street brawls in the 17th
century.

It's nice to be prepared but a timely,
accurately
placed shot is what wins the day.

In other words I'd rather be lucky than
good and luck
gets a huge boost from being well
trained......

I may not like plastics guns a lot but I
do respect
them every bit as much as steel guns


Definitely not denigrating the modern
polymer weapon as far as lethality goes...
it's all the tacticool features that give
me a giggle... like modular scope rails,
ginormous compensators, under barrel
accessory rails, threaded barrel, and
integral laser site grips... all one
pistol. Each of those things may have a
practical place on its own for a niche
application... but not all on one.


I also agree training is critical.. I plan
to get my kids into it when they are old
enough... great way to build muscle
memory. What's lacking is the culmination
of training in force on force maneuvers...
things change when your targets start
shooting back.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 4:41pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Atavist wrote:
REM1875 wrote:
I'm so damned impractical
I had to look up John Wick
and I like Keanu Reeves in the things I
have seen him
in.

As far as impractical shooting- 2 scenes
enter my mind
-Marshal Matt Dillion as every episode of
"Gunsmoke"
starts and the great Arab sword fighter in
Indiana
Jones.

The two greatest teachers of sword
fighting were
killed in street brawls in the 17th
century.

It's nice to be prepared but a timely,
accurately
placed shot is what wins the day.

In other words I'd rather be lucky than
good and luck
gets a huge boost from being well
trained......

I may not like plastics guns a lot but I
do respect
them every bit as much as steel guns


Definitely not denigrating the modern
polymer weapon as far as lethality goes...
it's all the tacticool features that give
me a giggle... like modular scope rails,
ginormous compensators, under barrel
accessory rails, threaded barrel, and
integral laser site grips... all one
pistol. Each of those things may have a
practical place on its own for a niche
application... but not all on one.


I also agree training is critical.. I plan
to get my kids into it when they are old
enough... great way to build muscle
memory. What's lacking is the culmination
of training in force on force maneuvers...
things change when your targets start
shooting back.


I tend to worry more about function over form; and I think that's what you're getting at as well. That said, I have used weapon mounted lights, lasers, and optics - and all on the same weapon - which also had a comp, and a big box of ammo hanging under it. I found all of those devices useful at one time or another. I think people buy things like that because they do not know what they want or need and have some sort of reflex urge to get what they see on TV or in the theater. I think if you were to ask the average person why they needed a laser or a light on their weapon, they would not be able to provide a cogent answer. I guess the important thing is that if want all the accoutrements, you should be able to articulate what each will be used for and in what circumstance.   In the end, however, I think a person must be competent with arms to be able to function without those items.

As far as force on force is concerned... Two way ranges cause you to reevaluate your training. Such things are available for the right price. Consider: http://simunition.com/en/products/theme/civilian



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Atavist
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 4:53pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

While in the Marines I was lucky enough to
get to go to Gryphon Group's Mobile Force
Protection course (only civilian company
course I did) I knew then if I had kids I
wanted them to do it too... they said as
long as the bill gets paid and liability
waivers were signed they would let me toss
my 18yr old son into the mix with all the
spec ops guys and learn the hard way...
with that company or another I definitely
plan to save to send my boys to spec ops
level courses if they show the slightest
inkling of interest in joining the
military... I can think of specific
scenarios I was in in iraq that being
trained at a higher level (with force on
force involved) is the reason I'm here
today.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 5:10pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Atavist wrote:
While in the Marines I was lucky enough to
get to go to Gryphon Group's Mobile Force
Protection course (only civilian company
course I did) I knew then if I had kids I
wanted them to do it too... they said as
long as the bill gets paid and liability
waivers were signed they would let me toss
my 18yr old son into the mix with all the
spec ops guys and learn the hard way...
with that company or another I definitely
plan to save to send my boys to spec ops
level courses if they show the slightest
inkling of interest in joining the
military... I can think of specific
scenarios I was in in iraq that being
trained at a higher level (with force on
force involved) is the reason I'm here
today.


Amen. I can think of plenty of situations here at home where the same would be true. I will need to check those guys out.

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REM1875
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Posted: August 20 2017 at 5:24pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

RECURVE wrote:
I watch Mr. Dillon every day. That's
the kind of law we
need now


AMEN



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Atavist
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 2:17pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Well I finally found a uberti and pietta
(cimarron both) birds heads in a shop
today... been hunting for one for a while..
didn't fit my hand at all... very
disapointing...
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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 3:33pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

You're not alone. Birdshead grips fail to fill most folks hands as well. And they're not attractive either.

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RT58
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 4:04pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

I used to practice "practical shooting", until I got to train on a FATS machine (FireArms Training Simulator). The first time I just figured I was having a bad day, the second time I realized practical shooting wasn't practical at all. The third time the FATS operator was impressed. Now I'm an "impractical shooter too.

Plastic pistols I don't care for them at all. I do own a few, but I'm more partial to S&W DA revolvers, as long as they are pre MIM. However, they are just like the cheap Jennings and Hi-Point autos and old, cheap top break revolvers, they will still kill you. A couple of my ex-fellow officers were laughing one day at the office after one of them had arrested a teenager with an old .32 top break in his car. They were bragging about how their high capacity, plastic autos were so much better than that old piece of junk. The next we re-qualified I called those two up to the firing line and dropped an old H&R top break in a holster and taught them a hard learned lesson. It's now what you use, or how much it cost you, it how well you use it and who gets hit first.

All the accessories won't make anyone a better shooter. I tried a laser and took it off before I ever even shot the pistol, a Browning Hi-Power, because it took too much time to look for that little light. Tacti-cool is a term used to sucker in guys that aren't confident in their shooting, or are too lazy to learn how.

Of course that is all just my opinion and not meant to offend or degrade anyone in particular. To each their own.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 5:43pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

After this afternoon, I have a new nickname... Since I think in two languages, I'll translate into english...

Old Man Who Shoots Poorly.

I believe that I'm going to sell all my guns and become a transgender hairdresser!

Was out with my 4 3/4" 357Mag Uberti mod P and was so bad that I couldn't hit a paper plate at 25yds! Went to 15yds and hit it 3 out of 15! 7 1/2yds was all left, scattered, and just plain stinko!

Think its time to walk away from guns for a bit.

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Rex
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 5:53pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

Wade, sometimes it does help me to back off a little, pick up the rifle or shotgun for a while. Deer season it coming up anyway.
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REM1875
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 6:11pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Wade try a real SA revolver... Remington or Smith and
Wesson, Merwin Hulbert, Forehand Wadsworth, A big old
H&A......Maybe one of those big old British Bull dog
pistols... an Adams? Maybe a Ruger? But for heaven
sake try a real SA before ya give up.........   


Edited by REM1875 on August 21 2017 at 6:23pm


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Atavist
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 6:15pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

It happens... just last week my wife was
missing a paper plate sized target from 15
yards with her micro 9... I watched her
and coulet find any major technique flaws
that accounted for the complete pepper
spray she was laying down... had her
switch to the sp101 and problem fixed..
went back to the kimber and tight little
groups like normal... sometimes something
in our own head is just detracting enough
to throw us for a loop at the range.
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REM1875
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 6:19pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Wade
in all seriousness if there is a big difference in how
you shoot there maybe an underlying medical condition...
An off day is one thing but a big continued difference
needs to be paid close attention to....

I know you have been trying different methods so that
changes things but pay attention.........
You don't want to end up in.......THE VA IN
DALLAS....... trust me on that....


Edited by REM1875 on August 21 2017 at 6:20pm


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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 6:40pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Wade,

Taking a step back may be the way to go. Maybe just for a week or so. That's what I do when I start screwing up on targets. Then, when I go back to the range, I start at absurdly close and take it out by degrees. Seriously, like 3 yards, and I just focus on stacking the holes for a while before going to 7, 10, or 15 yards. It helps to get the confidence back and allows me to check for little things I'm doing wrong.

The biggest part, though, is to not be so hard on yourself about it.

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