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REM1875
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 5:50am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Master Chief

Not sure you posted what your loads for the M-24-5 were?

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GregT
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 10:28am | IP Logged Quote GregT

Quote:
    "I'll show you later another reason why I
had to have the GP100 .44 Special."

    For years I have been looking for an 1873 French Ordnance Revolver in caliber 11mm. At this point, they are found on auctions generally for half again as much as the GP100 in .44 Special. When I first saw the Ruger, it rang a bell with me and I finally figured out that it looked like something I had seen before... With the exception of the ejector rod housing and the loading gate, the French Ordnance Revolver looks very much like the GP100, including the grip! I could make the French 11mm cases out of .44 Special brass! Bullets are .425" diameter. So, here I am with a modernized French revolver in the GP100! Even the grip, profile and the barrel length are close. Here is a photo(if this works)

http://www.fototime.com/BE6D6CF9546E4C5/standard.jpg

So, if I use .44 Russian loads in this GP100, I basically have the French Ordnance revolver. Some would wonder at my sanity, but I figure I'm fine!
GregT

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REM1875
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Posted: August 21 2017 at 2:40pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Yeah I had my eye on one of those,1873 French Ordnance
Revolver, too Greg till the shop closed before I found
out about - it had even become a wall hanger - a 600
buck wall hanger?
Oh well the fever has passed but Friday I saw a
beautiful mint Colt 455 New Service bored to 45 Colt
(LC) for just under 900 - sweaty palm prints all over
it.........

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GregT
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Posted: August 23 2017 at 5:27am | IP Logged Quote GregT

Good Morning,
   Yesterday I loaded some test rounds for the GP100 .44 Special. This test load consisted of a Federal casing, Wolf Large Pistol Mag. Primers, 12 grains of DuPont SR-80 propellant (circa 1926, good as new)and a Dardas cast .430", RNFPBB 200 grain slug.
     Phil Sharpe gives an entire page to SR-80 powder and mentions that this is the powder that Keith "blew up some handguns with...*). While I have to believe what Sharpe said in this case, I find it, as a practical matter, impossible to load enough SR-80 in a modern solid base, .44 Special casing to blow up a revolver. The load I'm using is referenced by Sharpe as coming from DuPont and is noted in some of the period reloading manuals I have from Lyman and Belding and Mull. It is classified as a load in the 800 fps range with pressure under 15,000 psi. I'm using a mag primer, first, because I have at least 3 cases of them, and second, because as this load fills the case to the base of the bullet, I want the charge to light correctly. Technically, it is a bulk powder but is not supposed to be dipped using a powder dipper. I did complete loading 3 rounds yesterday and fired them into my dirt bank just to get a feel of them. The load gives you a solid recoil, raising the muzzle a bit, and struck me as a nice, tame loading.
     * Going back to Keith's experiences with this powder, in reading yesterday, Hercules 2400 powder was released to the handloader in 1932-33. It was designed for high velocity loading in handguns and Keith did use this in his work. My bet is that this is the powder he blew a handgun with. You have to remember that he and Doug Wesson were also working on what became the .357 Magnum in 1935 and 2400 was about the only powder around that would give high velocity to a handgun. Fill a balloon head casing with this and kiss your revolver goodbye.
   I hope to be able to sight the GP100 in at 10 yards sometime today. I have to finish carpet cleaning also before the "monsoons" hit NW Wisconsin again this Friday.
Greg Topp
       

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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 23 2017 at 5:36am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Greg - Thanks for the update. As I think I posted earlier, I have been looking at this particular revolver and the more information I can get on it, the better.

With regard to SR-80 powder, re: blowing up guns - We have read a lot in books and magazines over the years. Being able to verify what we read is invaluable. I don't and doubt I ever will have any SR-80, but it's a good bet I'll have 2400 at some point and you reassessment of the powders will be important to me.

Yes, yes; proper safe hand loading and all that. But having this vignette will help me to remember, so

Thanks.

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Ranch 13
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Posted: August 23 2017 at 6:19am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

If a person can't get a 44 special of any shape to shoot very well with a 240 gr
swc loaded over a charge from 7 - 8 gr of unique, it's either a bad pistol, rotten
bullets, or....

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GregT
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Posted: August 23 2017 at 8:38pm | IP Logged Quote GregT

Doing more reading tonight. The old data I'm using was put into BALLOON HEAD cases. I'm set to load 12 grains of SR80, but I'm using solid head cases... So, I'm going to see how many grains of SR80 it takes to fill up around the "balloon" of the primer pocket where it enters the bottom of a balloon head case, and subtract that amount of SR80 from the 12 grain load of SR80 I was going to use in the solid head case. That should even things up and I bet I still will get a bit above the 800 fps load that I want. This is the "fun" of experimenting safely!
GregT

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Ranch 13
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Posted: August 23 2017 at 9:30pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Not real sure that shooting a powder like SR80 that has been out of
production for several decades could be considered "safe"

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REM1875
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Posted: August 24 2017 at 6:37pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Greg
Interesting to hear about that 90 y/o powder still being
good....
Interested in anything ya find out about it.

Of course safety is number one issue though.....

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GregT
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 11:51am | IP Logged Quote GregT

I have the result of the test firing the GP100 .44 Special with my "antique" DuPont SR-80 powder (circa 1926). The Sharpe book list a load of 12 grains of the powder with a 200 grain lead bullet. I decided that since I was using a solid head case rather than a balloon head case, that 10 grains would be safer. I actually did two loadings, one with 9 grains and the other with 10 grains of powder.
Here is the recipe:

Federal .44 Special case
Dardas cast 200 grain RNFPBB with blue lube, .430 diameter.
10 grains (also did 9 grains) of DuPont SR-80 powder
Wolf Large Pistol Mag primer
Seated to crimp groove.
Groove diameter of revolver is .429" as are cylinder mouths.

String One using 9 grains of powder (fps, 15 feet to chronograph)
1. 656, 2. 713, 3. 738, 4. 729, 5. 734, 6. 686, 7. 601,
8. 674, 9. 675, 10. 747. Ave: 695fps, ES:146

String Two, 10 grains of powder:
1. 677, 2.753, 3. 704, 4.654, 5.708, 6. 756, 7. 749,
8. 701, 9. 766, 10. 747. Ave: 721fps, ES: 112fps
Standard Deviation 38.

The ten shot loading gives me about 2.5 inch 5-shot groups at 30 feet from a rest.

No barrel leading and no unburned powder. Cases fairly clean. Primer normal. Virtually no case expansion from full length resize measurements.
Looking at the extreme spread, I doubt that trying to find a more accurate loading would go pretty much nowhere. I have many other powders I would like to try but my reaction to this load was that it should be a pretty good load for water-filled milk jugs! Recoil is quite manageable.
I have about 4, 8-ounce containers of this powder to use up. Might as well use it as it is not getting any younger!
GregT




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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 1:53pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Excellent! Thanks for the detailed report. This looks like a nice load for punching holes at the range.

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REM1875
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 8:59pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Greg

This sort of research should go into a magazine (like
Handloader?) -that powder in that condition is pretty
danged rare.... of course I am sure a search of the
net will bring this up.
Glad I got to see it.....
Thanks

The only thing I got to compare is using 90 y/o 30-40
Krag brass after annealing the neck cause it was all I
had.
I am always curious about how well these old things
work, The only two old rounds I had problems getting
to work was some 20 some year old 303 British years
ago and some 6.5 Carcano of unknown age...
I know 1960 30-06 Match ammo went bang every time I
pulled the trigger without fail and same with some
1939 Bulgarian 8x56 Hung......

I sure wish I had known more and paid more attention
to the things I shot as a kid .......

In the 60's ammo laying in the bottom of old cigar
boxes was real mix of anything including balloon
heads.

Stupidly firing 38-40 in a original Rem 1875 showed
the old family tale of it being 44 Rem that 44 S&W
worked in was incorrect-- looking at the brass a few
decades latter showed it was definitely 44-40.

I was a bigger knuckelhead then I am today --Yeah I
know hard to believe...

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Posted: August 25 2017 at 9:54pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

"Master Chief

Not sure you posted what your loads for the M-24-5 were?"

204 gr WC I mold with 5 gr of BE.

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GregT
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 4:18am | IP Logged Quote GregT

REM1875 wrote:
Greg

This sort of research should go into a magazine (like
Handloader?) -that powder in that condition is pretty
danged rare.... ]


    I saved some of the ammo I used for the test and will probably chronograph ii in my 6" Model 629. Perhaps the powder needed a longer barrel to perform? More questions come up than really get answered sometimes. Now I have the start up of the high school looming next Monday and a new foster son coming on Tuesday. This one is a sad case as most of the teen age boy cases are. Parents are dead-beats and don't want him. Will turn him into a shooter as I try to with all who don't have "junior" felonies on their record.
Thanks for reading my notes!
Greg T.

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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 5:32am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

REM1875 wrote:
Greg

...


I am always curious about how well these old things
work, The only two old rounds I had problems getting
to work was some 20 some year old 303 British years
ago and some 6.5 Carcano of unknown age...
I know 1960 30-06 Match ammo went bang every time I
pulled the trigger without fail and same with some
1939 Bulgarian 8x56 Hung......


A few months back, i finished shooting off some South African 7.62x51 with a manufacture date of 1968. There was some light corrosion of the bullet and a few heavily tarnished cases, but every last round went bang. For the really bad stuff, I used a nylon bristle brush to take of anything I thought would interfere with weapon function.

I think if it was made well and stored well, it will last a good long time. There's a point, though, where the powder starts to break down. Then it is genuinely unsafe.

Concur 100% that this should be published for wider consumption. Does Handloader take submissions? It might be worth a try.

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GregT
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 10:23am | IP Logged Quote GregT

Good wet morning to you all! At least here in NW Wisconsin, we can't get hurricanes. Glad I did the shooting I did yesterday!
I want to thank you all for taking the time to read about the work that was done with the SR-80 powder. I had fun and ended up with a fine, plinking load for the GP100 .44 Special. I may not be quite done with this yet as the most important thing I found out is that this powder is safe to use. Carefully. This opens up the possibility of varying things a bit. Perhaps, trying standard primers. Then chronographing. The goal here would be to try to narrow up the extreme spread. Or, try other .44 bullet styles. I would like to try the Keith style slug and work up a load with that. I don't have a .44 mould for the Keith bullet, but I do have a number of Lee moulds and I would not hesitate to get one for what I needed. One thing to remember, though, is that "Handloader" may not be open to this as there are a lot of bone-headed characters who would be trying "old" gunpowder that may be chemically defective and get hurt. Thus liability for them enters into the picture. Another powder I have is a can of perfect condition DuPont 4759 from close to the 1st lot issued. I would like to compare that to some brand new 4759 Powder. Of course, the idiots have discontinued that number... But I recall that powder was discontinued back in 1974 and then reissued it again a few years later.
Thanks again! Got to get moving and finish prepping my new foster son's bedroom so it will be ready when he gets here Tuesday.
GregT

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Posted: August 26 2017 at 11:06am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

I don't have the new GP100 in .44 Special, but I do have the Blackhawk Flattop in .44 Special and it shoots very well.



So far, the most accurate load has been Lyman's 429215 over 8.5gr. Unique and has given groups as tight as one inch at 25yds.


Mike

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GregT
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 12:14pm | IP Logged Quote GregT

I think Unique might be the next on my agenda!
GregT

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REM1875
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 12:43pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

They had some unique older than your SR-80 they used
to pull out and test every once in awhile.......
Course it wasn't stored in a tin on a shelf......

I am a big Unique fan whether I want to be or not---
it just always seems to end up in most casings I
test.

One of the major warnings is be damned careful about
double or triple charges cause it leaves a lot of
space in most cases.....

Also many complain it is a "dirty" powder producing
more residue than others......

Metering even is usually not it's high-point.....

I highly recommend it and consider 6 grs the universal
load in most of my big bores......

Edited by REM1875 on August 26 2017 at 12:45pm


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