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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 10:46am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Well, it only took me 6 decades to figure it out. Been shootin' since I was 10. I took to the rifle like a duck to water. Liked handguns and was real good with the 1911A1. Saved my bacon in the jungle and more than a few times we got over run by sappers in the compound.

Then police work for about 3 decades, carrying mostly a S&W double action revolver. Got really good with them too. A few shooting scrapes had me coming out on top while working the streets. I always shot expert with a DA revolver.

BP revolvers and Colt single actions always fascinated me to no end. But mostly I shoot poorly with all of em. Left, or low-left nearly all the time. With the BP revolvers I thought it was just how they are. Never paid attention to it. Had a "long dry spell" with no single action cartridge revolvers here. Then I began to get a few. And they shoot low, or low-left. All of em!

I tried all the self help stuff. Nothing from any suggestions could correct it. The Steve McQueen Method really did help. Got me back on paper and an occasional bull. But that still doesn't solve the real cause of my poor shooting. In the rifle forum here Rich said to shoot what you're good with (paraphrasing) about sighting in your deer rifle. SOUND WISDOM.

Today, I strapped on my trusty old S&W double action M&P made in 1956. A standard old 4" pencil barrel square butt. The classic cop gun of years gone by. Went to the pistol range and opened fire at 15yds. Slow fire two handed grip and I was tearing up the bull. Changed targets and went back to 25yds. Same drill. 3 3/4", 12 shot group. Went to 10ft and drew and fired 6 double action with pistol extended but not aimed. Years of practice and training musta kicked in. The center of the target was obliterated.

Yeah, it took most of my life to figure out that single action revolvers don't fit my hand! Duh! Must be something about how I grip, or more likely how their grips do not fit my hand. Something about the grip causes my hand to rotate left and often, down. It doesn't happen with a DA revolver or a 1911A1 auto. Just with single actions.

Rich was right. Shoot what you're good with.

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Rex
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 12:41pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

Glad your confidence is back. I still have to put the revolver in my hand every day to stay half way. Concentration on the front sight still bugs me. Loaded up some 385429s over 7 grains Unique and when I could get my strong side grip pressure right so as not to drag the revolver to the right and remember not to heel the grip and go high things went real well. I have arthritis in my lower thumb joints and a bit in my right wrist but hey, if it was easy it wouldn't be any fun.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 1:48pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Good for you! Glad to hear you are back in the saddle.

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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 3:02pm | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

Well Old Ranger, I never was a very good shot!! The last 8 years have been very bad health wise so it was no surprise when I took the NRA certified pistol instructors course and the shooting practice went very bad with the Taurus slim I had with me for a carry gun. I got an older S&W like a 5906 all stainless semi and the big part of this is I went back to NRA basic two handed,site picture,site aliment breathing and exhale to holding on holding on exhaling then the slow squeez until I was surprised the gun went off!! I did this like religion!! and tested the next day and scored 60 out of 60. Job done!!! My main problem is that when I shoot I am testing rounds so I just don't get serious about the basics. Craig

Just editing to say I have since fixed the Taurus slim with a site adjustment .Shoots fine now!!

Edited by Desert Eagle41 on August 25 2017 at 3:12pm


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M700
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 3:22pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Ranger - I like single action revolvers... I've had two .44 Super Blackhawks. They were accurate, rugged, powerful... And I had to really work at shooting them well. Same with the .357 & .45 Blackhawks my sons have. I like 'em, but it's tough for me to shoot real well with them.

So I own and shoot double action revolvers! Particularly S&W revolvers. They fit my hand better, and I shoot them better.

Those, and of course the 1911.

Guy
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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 4:59pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Yup. I just came back in from my pistol range with my 45Colt. 7 1/2yds and it was all I could do to keep em on paper! 9" paper plates and I had two out of ten go so far left they weren't even on the paper! Then I set it aside and picked up my 1911A1. 10 rounds slow fire and it looked like one of Guy's targets. Oh yeah....

I cleaned both 45's. The single action was left unloaded and put away. The 1911A1 was loaded and placed back by my bunk. When things go bump in the night, that's the one I pickup ready for a fight. Fits my mitts just right.

Tomorrow I'm going to my granddaughter's place for some fine tuning of their loading gear and lunch. I might just leave a box at their place with a .357Mag SAA in it with a few boxes of rounds. New grandson just graduated college and that pistol might be a good present. Unless my granddaughter does what some of y'alls wives do and takes it away from him!

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Atavist
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Posted: August 25 2017 at 6:55pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Glad to hear you figured out the issue... for
my part I find that this problems applies
mostly to rifles... I can pick up most
any pistol and shoot about the same (never
made expert, was always consistent pistol
Sharpshooter) now with rifles.. i was a
consistent expert (designated marksman) on
the M16 but now that i get to pick my own gun
if the length of pull is too short or the
drop to comb to deep I'm lucky to shoot
minute of grapefruit... that may be my
problem with the marlin guide guns...couldn't
hit jack with my jd stamped 44mag marlin...
never put 2 and 2 together on that one
before...

Edited by Atavist on August 25 2017 at 6:58pm
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RT58
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 8:29am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Wade, I've never had a problem with accuracy with SA's, but I hate their small, humpless grips. I shoot them, but not very often, mostly for nostalgia.

My first Blackhawk was a .41 mag with the 4 and whatever inch barrel. It's fit and finish was way better than any later Ruger I'd ever owned, but the balance was unforgiveable. And just as bad as the balance was the way I had to re-grip the gun after every shot. I had several other .41 mag. revolvers at the time that were well balanced and had better grip frames that didn't require changing my grip, so the Ruger was traded off.

It's surprising how little differences in firearms can make such big differences in how they fit and feel.

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REM1875
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 12:05pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Old Ranger
I have dealt with this more than once and sometimes it
works and sometimes it doesn't but can you shoot left
handed?
I have seen some remarkable improvement when folks
switch hands.
I can shoot either hand- I am so- so with the right
but the left feels natural and in that hand I am a
fair shot.
I understand the stroke has left you with less options
but just a thought.

At the last it should fix- low and left

Edited by REM1875 on August 26 2017 at 12:10pm


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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 3:02pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Understand the .41mag 4 5/8" Ruger. Got one (3 screw) as a trade when in the business. Nice Ruger from the old days. But it kicked all over the place. Glad it sold quick!

Shoot left handed? Sure. I am left handed, but trained right handed for everything, except for shaving and hammer work. When I shoot left handed with a single action it goes right or low-right! It's hopeless.

Took the Uberti.357Mag mod P with the ivory to my new grandson for a college graduation present. 3 boxes of my best ammo too. He was slightly stunned. Made my day....

Now I don't have the issue with my 1860 Army conversion. It has grips of the 1860 Army and they're quite different from the 1873 SAA/Colt Navy. I shoot the conversion quite well. Also the fabled EAA Bounty Hunter, possess grips of a different shape from the Colts. It too, shoots well. My gorgeous engraved 45Colt, yup, you guessed it. Shoots left and low-left! So with it, I can't hit a flock of barns, but I look cool

Edit. Now when I sit, pull my knees up, and use them as a rest, I shoot remarkably well. Just can't stand up and shoot straight unless I go all Steve McQueen on it!
I'm going to install a shoe on the 45's trigger and see what happens. What the hell, couldn't get any worse, right?

Edited by Old Ranger on August 26 2017 at 3:14pm


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REM1875
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 3:33pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

You need a Remington or Schofield ........

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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 26 2017 at 6:02pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Nope. The S&W is butt ugly and the Remington don't fit me either. What I really need is a S&W mod 28 4" with the magna grips. But they are all gone with collectors having bought them up....

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REM1875
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Posted: August 27 2017 at 2:42am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Old Ranger wrote:
Nope. The S&W is butt ugly and the
Remington don't fit me either. What I really need is a
S&W mod 28 4" with the magna grips. But they are all
gone with collectors having bought them up....


Which brings me to a question?
I got my box grips and pulled the Hogue grips off that
Mod 28 "NYSD" I got and put wood gripes (both pair I
got in my "box" are like this) on but up top there is
a dip in the grips and since I am too damned dumb to
figure out how to post photos or links here I been
waiting to ask.
They are identical to the grips on my Mod 58 (which is
current away getting Cerakote- gun had minor pitting
so I wasn't gonna loose much of the value) My other N-
frames have different grips.
So are there 2 different N-frames? Or am I delusional
and have other problems? (besides mental issues...)

Is the 58 frame different than the 28? I believe both
are square buts?
I understand S&W grips can lead to pages and pages of
discussions on some sites but I just want a large pair
of properly fitting wooden grips on a shooter.....
preferably cheap used S&W grips?


Edited by REM1875 on August 27 2017 at 2:43am


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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 27 2017 at 4:56am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Can't say. I'm not independently wealthy to have ever owned but a few weapons, so I've nothing to compare with. I carried a 4" M28 when the PD said I could no longer carry the M29. Then the 28 was affordable on a police salary. However, today the exorbitant prices of one is far beyond the reach of a retired officer's pension. And that's when one can actually be found. Sorry, I can't help.

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RT58
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Posted: August 27 2017 at 8:54am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Rem, the frames should be the same, but there were changes to their stocks over the years. (S&W always called them stocks by the way.)

I'm not sure what you mean by a "dip". Looking at the left side of target stocks, older ones were rounded off and looked like the right side. Later they cut a relief on the left side to allow the extractor to move freely over top of it. And then they cut the relieved area out completely to make room for speedloaders.

Does this help?
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REM1875
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Posted: August 27 2017 at 2:29pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Thanks RT58
It's to the back upside of the 'stock' (thanks for that
info) I will have to wait till I get the other one back
to compare frame to frame. It's on the rear side behind
the cut out for the speed loader..... on left and right
stock.
It is obvious that the metal to wood do not fit- by a
long shot. Not the same shape... Will let ya know more
when I get the other one back....

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RT58
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Posted: August 27 2017 at 6:40pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

I got it now. I'm not in the collectors assn. and don't know all the particular changes to their stocks, but if it's really sloppy it's more than likely a Q/C issue.

I have a number of N frames and stocks are interchangeable between them, both factory and after market.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 28 2017 at 3:12pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Ok, back on track.....

Training. Something we did in the Rangers all the time. And when something was wrong, different, or a new mission then we trained for that purpose. We trained for the mission. I'm going back home a little now....

Mission: Shoot from all postures and combat conditions, the Colt Single Action Army revolver, caliber .45 Colt. Goals: to effectively manage the weapon to engage single and multiple targets at various combat ranges. Obtain, display, and maintain, a highly effective and accurate fire on all targets engaged during this training cycle. Said primary training cycle, phase 1, shall last no longer than a combined 10 hours study and 8 hours practical in dry fire and live fire in the field. At said point in training cycle completion, a 25 round proficiency test will take place on the combat range whereupon multiple targets will be engaged. A qualifying score of not less than 85% will be accepted. 90% or better is expected to move forward and advance to phase 2 training with the Colt Single Action Army revolver.

Phase 1 is nearly half way complete. The trainee is showing promise. Only ordered to the leaning rest 3 times. Ordered once to recite the General Orders while running in place at high port! Hoo-ah!

OLD RANGERS NEVER DIE. THEY GO TO HELL AND REGROUP!

Now is that self motivation or what?

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Atavist
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Posted: August 28 2017 at 5:29pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Good stuff... I could take a lesson. Gotten
pretty laizzes faire about my shooting. More
interested in the chronograph than accuracy
or drilling.. should take a day soon and get
back to basics.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: August 30 2017 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger



4 in the bull. 5 clustered low left. 7 scattered all over. Zowie. Some retrain job Wade! Not!
25% accuracy ain't what I call acceptable. Not at 15yds!

(Low rounds were aimed at dead center. Red pen mark was point of aim for those in bull and the two high and outside)

Guess it's keep training or sell the weapon.

Edited by Old Ranger on August 30 2017 at 9:49am


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