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Atavist
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Posted: October 06 2017 at 9:28pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Decided to trade in my cimarron frontier in 357 for a
taylor tuned, short stroke smoke wagon... the frontier
just got me hooked (as you all warned) and with the suped
up version being only $540 at wholesalehunter I couldn't
resist... but on to the question... I think I'm going to
cave and get a matching rifle in 357... played with a
truck load and I always come back to a winchester miroku
model 73... the action is as nice as my wife's BLR
(probably because they are both made by Miroku) just
wondering if anyone has any experience with one... it's
considered the weakest of the lever guns it seems... can
she safely stomach top end saami pressure loads or is she
for cowboy action only?

Any negatives to her that I'm missing?
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REM1875
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 3:29am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Bad choice for hot loads Marine- the Marlin or
Winchester 92 (or clone) are what you are looking for
.....
Not sure about a Lightning pump in 357 but if i recall
correctly they are not classed as strong ....
I just picked up a NEW (old and re-introduced) Ruger M-
77/357 a a bolt gun and I reviewed it here in an earlier
thread.....


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Old Ranger
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 4:32am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I have only this to say.
The 73 was a black powder rifle. 17k psi.
The 357Mag is a modern-day smokeless cartridge at 35k psi. You want to load at the top end and likely hotter in a 73? Where do I send the condolences card?

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Atavist
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 10:39am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Not talking about +P here... just high end of
spec.
I realize pretty much all other models are
stronger... what has me craving one of these
is the action. Had the gun counter covered
in lever guns. Every make and model that the
shop had and the difference in the miroku and
everything else was night and day... they
didn't have any other winchester models so
not sure how their 92 compares.
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Atavist
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 8:42pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Just found out uberti has a 73 in 44mag... I
know she has a rep as the week cousin but I
would think if they can chambe he in 44mag
she must be improved enough to handle a hot
but no +P 357
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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 9:42pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Lot's of the folks shooting cowboy lever gun silhouette use the 73's in 357,
and a bunch of em that shoot the dressup single action squib load game shoot
73's in 357 albeit they don't load a lot of rounds to full potential, they do shoot
a lot of rounds. Uberti has been making those 73's in 357 for 40 years or
more,, so I think the action strength question is answered.
I have one of the Winchester 73's short rifle in 44-40 and it's one sweet rifle.
Action is really slick, much slicker than my Uberti 32-20, and the fit and finish
are excellent. The thing shoots very well with smokeless or blackpowder.
The only complaint I have on it is the front sight they ship on those rifles is
about twice as tall as it needs to be. I replaced that factory front with an ivory
blade front, and that solved the problem of running out of elevation to get to
100 yards.

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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 08 2017 at 9:55pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Here's the front sight I put on it


Here's what she'll do shooting 75 yards off hand.


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REM1875
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 12:09am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Apparently I stand corrected and there was a pump 357
and 44 mag that were made by an Israeli company ages
ago.....


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Atavist
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 12:37pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

REM1875 wrote:
Apparently I stand corrected
and there was a pump 357
and 44 mag that were made by an Israeli
company ages
ago.....


I think you are talking about the IMI
Timberwolf... those were some mean guns...
ugly as sin but reliable... I considered
getting one of those but can't get past the
aesthetics... the uberti lightning
unfortunately is a CAS gun only... I
contacted Uberti a coup years ago and asked
for more info on pressure tolerances etc,
they were very straightforward the it should
not be used with "modern" ammunition... ie.
Keep is to cowboy load pressure levels...
I've heard the new Pedersolli lightnings are
stronger, can handle factory loads but hotter
should be avoided... beautiful but from I
gather they are still a bit finicky and you
pretty much have to use RNFP ammo. RN may
cause primer detonation and SWC won't feed
well... which is what I loaf mostly... which
always brings me back to the 73 with its
elevator feed...

anyone here have a 92 they load SWC in? Does
it feed well?
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Old Ranger
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 1:11pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I shoot 162gr SWC in my 20" full octagonal barreled Rossi M92 in both magnum and special cases. And round nose lead bullets will not detonate primers in the magazine. Although its a 1:30 barrel, it shoots remarkably well with anything I stuff into it. But of course its not all fancy, and being a workhorse and not a showpony, some folks turn their nose up at it. It's one of the strongest actions available and remarkably accurate.

And when I spoke earlier about condolences, it was for when hot loads rattled the 73 copy's internal parts to death.

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REM1875
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 1:36pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Yes the timberwolf I kick myslf in the ass for not
getting one back then..... I recently saw one but I am
saving for something else.
I have definitely not heard a lot a good stuff about
rossi pumps...
I think there was a reason those old bottle necks
worked and they have a problem with straight walls. I
kind wonder with the speed of those rifles just how
tight lock up is before they go off....

I have an AWA in 38-40 and it is a blast- I love it.
A Remington 14 1/2 and Marlin 27 are things of beauty
too. BUT not 357's

Chuck hawks comes to about the same conclusion you did
between the Marlin, Henry (which we didn't mention)
and the Uberti 1873 lever actions.

http://chuckhawks.com/compared_big-boy_1894C_1873.htm

While I have no levers in 357, I do have experience
with these type rifles in revolvers calibers if you
are interested.
The Henry seems noticeable heavier and perhaps takes
more rounds than I have put through to reduce
stiffness. Not an easy gun to load while moving.
One the other hand the 1873 and a couple of 1889
Marlins seem smooth and slick but 125 years or so of
playing with them I am sure has something to do with
that.
New Winchester 92s are great out of the box but I
still prefer new Marlin 94s
(High collars of the 1960s and 70s and hot brass
'burns' an image in your mind and leaves 'brands' else
wheres......)   

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Atavist
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

I know plenty of guys that load round nose
bullets in tube mags but it was something my
grandfather always swore against... claimed
he new a guy that had the tube detonate due
to round nose bullets and damn near took his
left hand off. May be a wives tail but has
made me leary to load RN in a tube my whole
life...

That chuck hawks article was actually what
made me first look at the 73.. I had an old
jd stamped marlin 94 in 44mag...out of the
box i was in love... 24"octagon barrel, nice
wood... Unfortunately she had the old micro
groove and wouldn't stabilize bullets over
about 250gr... nor would she feed the swc
bullets i load for my blackhawk... so she had
to go...

Looked at some of the uberti 73s and they are
nice... good action... but man if you haven't
picked up one of the neW miroku 73s you
should... absolute glass like action.
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REM1875
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 11:19pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Yeah my brother and I got the rare microgroved 44-40
before Marlin brought out the cowboys. (We do have
several older 44-40 marlins but tend not to drive barn
burners through them...) ---but I can not comment on
heavy and fast bullets because I can't see loading em
that hot (anymore ) because most of my other
44-40's don't need anything that hot....(lol Not that
I haven't in the past)
The 44-40 is really where I cut my eye teeth on
reloading and I love that round and in 40 year of
loading it I have tried a lot of things with it and am
very impressed with it and it's little brother- the
38-40.
The 32-20 is no slouch either and a real favorite for
beginning shooter and experienced alike here at the
house.....

None of which helps you with your search for the
ultimate 357
I am still push for a Winchester 92 for ya.
As a side note the "elevator system" on the 73 does
seem to allow for trouble free feeding on more types
of bullets.

Edited by REM1875 on October 09 2017 at 11:27pm


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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 10 2017 at 6:37am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

I know a married couple that shoot tons of the NRA cowboy silhouette
matches, they win a lot of titles from state ,regional and national matches, plus
they run their own monthly matches at their local club. Their gun of choice for
the pistol cartridge matches,, Uberti 73's in 357 loaded with 180 gr bullets..

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Atavist
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Posted: October 10 2017 at 3:59pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Just saw this video of ballistic comparison n
of 44-40 vs 44mag

Good video that shows how kinetic energy
transfers based on speed.

https://youtu.be/awnotbWMFLw




Edited by Atavist on October 10 2017 at 4:08pm
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Atavist
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Posted: October 10 2017 at 4:05pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Ranch 13 wrote:
I know a married couple
that shoot tons of the NRA cowboy silhouette
matches, they win a lot of titles from state
,regional and national matches, plus
they run their own monthly matches at their
local club. Their gun of choice for
the pistol cartridge matches,, Uberti 73's in
357 loaded with 180 gr bullets..


Wonder what kind of muzzle velocities they
are shooting at?

My two favorite 357 loads are running a 200gr
swc with 14gr of lilgun averaging 1300fps out
of my 4" sp101 and same out of my 4.75"
frontier. And a 105gr Spitzer with the same
load cooking almost 1700fps. I imagine that
105 out of a rifle would have pretty good
range for varmints and midsized game.
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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 10 2017 at 6:27pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

They are using 357 loads out of the book, don't know much about the details,
but have seen the tons of medals and trophies they bring home.
What I've seen from choreographing loads between a handgun and a rifle,
with the slower powders the rifle will give around 250-300 fps more.

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