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Atavist
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Posted: October 09 2017 at 8:25pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Anyone here have/had a model 1886 in 45-70?

Just wondering how they cycle? How accurate they are? Any big weaknesses?

Like you all warned me... it's an addiction...

Love my Sabatti SXS in 45-70 but with the site set up she's pretty limited in range... off hand or low kneeling my best groups are minute of grapefruit at 50 yards (with an AR or my wifes BLR .270 I'm strong to 300 hasty kneeling)... ideal for dangerous game in heavy brush but to really reach out and touch an elk an 1886 might be good medicine...

Edited by Atavist on October 09 2017 at 8:45pm
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Slick
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 5:04pm | IP Logged Quote Slick

I have one of the modern Winchester (made by Miroku) 1886 take-down rifles. The quality is impeccable and it's good for both trapdoor and Marlin 1895 loads. I've even heard that it's fine for the Ruger #1 loads, but I can't see any reason to load hotter than the 1895 calls for.

My rifle is one of the modern Japanese-made 1886's, so I don't know if anything I know will be helpful - unless you're looking at a Miroku. It's smooth as silk cycling - but then this rifle is a totally modern piece. My only critique is the "rebounding hammer" which is OK, but certainly not anything to write home about. That said, it's something easily modified. I've not tampered with it because I have a low serial # out of the 500 that were made.

If you have a chance to pick up one of the original 500 commemorative rifles for a reasonable price, I say definitely to go for it. I love mine and have no plans to ever part with it (so long as I'm on this side of the dirt).   

My pet "plinking load" is 40gr of RL-7 under a 405gr cast slug. It's a nice intermediate load that's incredibly accurate without beating me up. I wear a shooting pad on my shoulder to help me deal with high round-counts and the crescent shaped metal buttstock.

I neglected to mention that the 1886 is a rather long rifle. I have a Marlin 1895 SBL that is a far better choice for hunting in heavy brush. That said, I do not use either of these rifles to hunt - so I have no expertise in that regard.

Edited by Slick on October 12 2017 at 5:19pm


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M700
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 5:20pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Good to get your input Slick. Nice to see ya posting!

The Japanese routinely produce fine firearms. Attention to detail and very good quality control? Whatever it is, it works.

Guy
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Atavist
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 6:08pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Slick wrote:
I have one of the modern Winchester (made by Miroku) 1886 take-down rifles. The quality is impeccable and it's good for both trapdoor and Marlin 1895 loads. I've even heard that it's fine for the Ruger #1 loads, but I can't see any reason to load hotter than the 1895 calls for.

My rifle is one of the modern Japanese-made 1886's, so I don't know if anything I know will be helpful - unless you're looking at a Miroku. It's smooth as silk cycling - but then this rifle is a totally modern piece. My only critique is the "rebounding hammer" which is OK, but certainly not anything to write home about. That said, it's something easily modified. I've not tampered with it because I have a low serial # out of the 500 that were made.

If you have a chance to pick up one of the original 500 commemorative rifles for a reasonable price, I say definitely to go for it. I love mine and have no plans to ever part with it (so long as I'm on this side of the dirt).   

My pet "plinking load" is 40gr of RL-7 under a 405gr cast slug. It's a nice intermediate load that's incredibly accurate without beating me up. I wear a shooting pad on my shoulder to help me deal with high round-counts and the crescent shaped metal buttstock.

I neglected to mention that the 1886 is a rather long rifle. I have a Marlin 1895 SBL that is a far better choice for hunting in heavy brush. That said, I do not use either of these rifles to hunt - so I have no expertise in that regard.


Awesome feedback slick. The miroku is actually the rifle I have been considering most. Was originally looking for one of the Browning centennial miroku but then found out that the new Winchesters are miroku and got the itch to buy one in a big way. Hickok45 does a good video on the Browning Miroku 1886... it's one of his favorite guns ever. Sent him a message for a short discussion on which 1886 he thinks is best, to include the Pedersoli's etc and he stands behind the Miroku. Only thing that has been holding me back is that I can't find one locally to put hands on to make sure the new Winchester's are of the same quality... having looked at the new Miroku 73s, however, I imagine they are... and i think your review has synched it... haven't seen any listed as first 500 but at both wholesale hunter and buds gun shop the 24" version is going for $1100, (which is $200 to $500) less than the Pedeersolis... I'll have to sell something to justify it to the wife but seems like the value for the money is worth it.
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Slick
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 7:26pm | IP Logged Quote Slick

M700 wrote:
Good to get your input Slick. Nice to see ya posting! Guy


Thanks, Guy I'm really happy to see that you made it to a happy retirement! I have a close friend who's due to graduate the police academy (Phoenix PD) on Oct 20th - and I really pray for him to have a safe and productive career. Iím still personally caught up in moving to Idaho as selling acreage (bare ranch land) takes a bit more time than selling a house.

Once I get to where Iím going, Iíll see about getting a permanent Internet connection. Iím also looking at getting back into having an FFL Ė this time an 07 & 10 as Iíve gotten into wanting to manufacture low-fire-danger 37mm signal loads specifically for daytime use to make for better search & rescue.


Atavist wrote:
Was originally looking for one of the Browning centennial miroku but then found out that the new Winchesters are miroku and got the itch to buy one in a big way. Hickok45 does a good video on the Browning Miroku 1886... it's one of his favorite guns ever.


As far as I know, the Browning and Winchester 1886 (made by Miroku) are basically the same rifle - Iíve seen both and would be happy with either. I also have a Miroku .44mag 1892 that is equally as nice but I have not had the opportunity to fire it. I have about 450 rounds through the 1886 and can vouch for the quality of that rifle no problem.

There are few guns that I trust enough to buy ďsight unseenĒ (even when new), but with the Mirokuís, I feel safe as all Iíve examined have been well made and pass even with people who tend to be picky as myself. While I kind of hate sticking my neck out, if thereís a gun I would do it for Ė it would be a Miroku.


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Atavist
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 7:58pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Thanks again slick for more info. I've been looking for one of the commemorative takedowns but haven't been able to find one even for a ridiculous price. ... not that I'd pay it... but worth a look.

Edited by Atavist on October 12 2017 at 8:03pm
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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 8:44pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

The biggest difference between the Browning and the Winchester is the roll
mark on the barrel and the stock finish.
If you really want to reach out and touch something with a lever gun you might
want to think about one of the Winchester/miroku built 95's in 405.

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Atavist
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 9:03pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Well the die is rolled... the 405 is a powerhouse but I'm all set up for 45-70 and love the versatility of the round... just dropped the $$$ on a Winchester Miroku 1886 with a 24" barrel from wholesalehunter....

will post pics and review when she lands, hopefully Monday.
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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 9:11pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

I've seen a couple of those rifles set up with souls sights, shoot quite well to
800 yards.

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Atavist
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 9:17pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

can't wait to get my hands on her... in hickok45s video on the 1886 he takes a 230 yard shot off hand with the stock semi buckhorn sites at a gong and rings her right off... like any gun, get to know the gun and the load and she'll do whatever you want her too...

Edited by Atavist on October 12 2017 at 9:21pm
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Ranch 13
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 9:33pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

He probably took a bit of time ahead of the video to get the sight on the right
elevator step, and front sight picture sorted out for that 230 yard shot. Those
45-70's start dropping like a rock past about 150 yards.

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Atavist
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Posted: October 12 2017 at 10:05pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Ranch 13 wrote:
He probably took a bit of time ahead of the video to get the sight on the right
elevator step, and front sight picture sorted out for that 230 yard shot. Those
45-70's start dropping like a rock past about 150 yards.


That's one of the thing I do like about hickock45... he's honest... he did say in the video that he took a few shots to get his elevation right... nothing wrong there in my book... gotta know your gun....he did also miss a few if i recall but was always glad to own them...
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M700
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Posted: October 13 2017 at 7:53am | IP Logged Quote M700

Should prove to be one heck of a rifle.

Looking forward to the range reports, and perhaps a photo with a big ol' bull elk, or a buck or bear on the ground!

Guy
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Slick
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Posted: October 13 2017 at 10:25am | IP Logged Quote Slick

Atavist wrote:
just dropped the $$$ on a Winchester Miroku 1886 with a 24" barrel from wholesalehunter....


Outstanding! I'm sure that you'll be happy with it.

One thing I can add. I just started casting little over a year ago, so all the cast bullets I've ever shot have been from Oregon Trail. For some reason a lot of people reported constant "key-holing" with the OT 500gr slugs so they were discontinued. My 1886 shoots them just fine, but Midway closed them out.

I load my .45-70 for the 1886 mostly with RL-7 or IMR-3031 as I've never had a "bad" load with either powder. IMR-4198 also gave good results. It's been my experience that the .45-70 is probably one of the most forgiving cartridges to load for. I used to shoot "plinking loads" of 16gr of Unique under a 300gr cast with a tuft of Dacron filler. I never had any problems, but my velocities approached regular trapdoor velocities. I started to fear that the Unique might be producing a short but very high pressure curve and I decided that I didn't want to risk ringing the chamber or barrel. I'm probably being over-cautious, but the standard loads don't cost much more. My main reason for those loads was due to powder shortages that plagued the past 8 years..

When I put lots of rounds through it, the crescent buttplate can give you a sore shoulder. I bought one of those Bob Allen pads that you wear on your shoulder because I've seen too many of the slip-on rubber pads cause damage to the wood finish. It's a rather inexpensive solution since I also use it when shooting magnum shotshells.

Edited by Slick on October 13 2017 at 10:27am


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Atavist
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Posted: October 13 2017 at 11:08am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Thanks for all the info slick. For 500 grain
bullets check out the western bullet company.
It's a local company here that does a lot of
obscure casting...I think his 45 cal rifle
bullets go up to the 700 grains... nice guy.
Since I'm a walk in customer he let's me take
a hand full of just about anything I've never
tried to test. Which of course keeps me
coming back for all my staples...

Right now I'm loading all my 45-70 with
varget. 60gr under 300 and 405gr bullets and
44 gr under 535gr bullets... I get
about1400fps out of the 535s... 1900 out of
the 405 and 2100 out of the 300.. and very
reasonable recoil.

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Posted: October 13 2017 at 1:01pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Since you're already familiar with the 45/70, and have the dies and some components, it makes all kinds of sense to stick with that cartridge!

I actually had two sets of 45/70 dies, and when I sold my Marlin to a good friend, I kept one set of dies and a few brass cases, just in case...

In the back of my mind, there's always been the possibility of getting another 45/70, it's such a great cartridge! If I do it will likely either be another Marlin lever action, or a single-shot target type rifle. Something like a Sharps or a rolling block.

Guy
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Posted: October 13 2017 at 4:35pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

I just started reloading 45-70 this year... t
quickly supplanted 30-06 as my favorite
cartridge.
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Posted: October 13 2017 at 6:14pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

The 45-70 is a great close range cartridge, but I still put a 30-06 as a better all round cartridge...
My Ruger #3 with a Ruger #1 stock is good, but you can't push that round out to 150-200 yards and believe it will hit where you want..
MPO...
Maybe I'm just not that good with a rifle...

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Atavist
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Posted: October 13 2017 at 6:29pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

STCM(SW) wrote:
The 45-70 is a great close
range cartridge, but I still put a 30-06 as a
better all round cartridge...
My Ruger #3 with a Ruger #1 stock is good,
but you can't push that round out to 150-200
yards and believe it will hit where you
want..
MPO...
Maybe I'm just not that good with a rifle...


That's how my sabatti is... I wouldn't
honestly try much over 100... Hoping that
the 1886 will extend my range quite a bit.
Plan to install an elevation adjustable tang
peep sight... as long as she can give me 300
with confidence it will do for me.
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Posted: October 19 2017 at 7:13pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

To many things affect those 45 bullets to make 300 yds with confidence.
Wind and mirage can really raise holy ned with those bullets.
150 is doable, 200 maybe. But 300 you're going to have to be very good at
reading wind, and knowing how a tail wind or head wind, will affect the
trajectory, and know that a quartering from the left wind will throw that bullet
in the totally opposite direction of a quartering right wind.

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