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Atavist
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Posted: November 02 2017 at 10:17pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Had an old customer bring a referral into the
shop the other day to talk knives... he was a
young kid who wanted me to make him his
conception of the ultimate SHTF knife... I
don't agree with him on his design but it's
not my job to tell him what kind of knife he
needs... just to build it for him... the
course of conversation of course turned to
general prepping and then of course guns.
Wade recently mentioned that if he could only
have one pistol it would be his bounty hunter
(don't worry we won't hold you to that) so of
course it raises the question... in a SHTF
(i.e. social collapse) situation... you can
grab one pistol and one long gun, and hey why
not one knife... what would you grab?

For me... I think I'd go for the standards...
my 1911, 870 wingmaster with an 18" slug
barrel, and probably one of my subhilt
kukri... for the wife it's her sp101, and
270... that's what she's trained on... and
let her pick a knife out of the display
case... keep going in circles on how one
would bug out with a family... do you train
and arm them like a fire team or just go all
common platform...

Got a few beers in me and always end up
contemplating largely unrealistic scanarios.
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richhodg66
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 4:34am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

The obvious answers always boil down to versatility, so it's gotta be some flavor of .22 LR rifle and a 12 gauge of some sort.

Pistols? Pick what suits you. I'd go with a .357 revolver, but that's me.

At least 90% of my actual field use is done with a Gerber lock blade with about a 3" blade, I can and have butchered deer all the way through the process with it and some kind of bone saw. I think many of us over think knives way too much, get one of quality steel and use it.

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Ranch 13
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 6:00am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

I'ld take a 22 pistol, and a model 94 30-30, my knife would be the Leatherman
wave and pocket knife I carry daily.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 6:58am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Social collapse? Hell, it's already happened. The country
is falling apart as we speak, just look around, it's a
mess.

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Atavist
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 7:16am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

I hear you Wade... it's easy if you turn on
the news to think things are really bad
here... my friends in Europe think we a re on
the brink of a civil war... fortunately at
the mental I still class most of America's
issues as socio-political "1st world
problems" LBGT rights, free Healthcare,
political corectness... those are all
problems of convenience... people who are
hungry or cold dont have time to worry about
sich things... as long as there's milk and
bread on the shelf and America's poorest have
better housing than a huge porion of the
world's upper middle class I don't count it
as kind of actual collapse or recession...
just a bunch of entitled brats who don't know
how good they have it whining for more.
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twillis
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote twillis

I guess my 686 (though it's difficult to leave my 5" 629 behind), my Encore rifle with it's 22 and 30.06 barrels, and my Buck Vanguard.

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Atavist
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 5:03pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

That a encode with enter changeable barrels
is a good thought.
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safari100
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 7:22pm | IP Logged Quote safari100

1911, 10/22, and a buck 102 knife. I am an 870 nut but ammo is way to heavy and bulky.


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Atavist
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Posted: November 03 2017 at 8:48pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

safari100 wrote:
1911, 10/22, and a buck 102 knife. I am an 870 nut but ammo is way to heavy and bulky.


no one said you can't have a car/truck
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Old Ranger
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Posted: November 04 2017 at 10:22am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Ok, I'll play this time.

Reality. If forced into hiding/seclusion, I'd take what
those who invaded/in power and such in the way of
caliber. US martial law? 5.56mm & 9mm. The other guys?
7.62x39mm .
Pretty easy to figure. You carry what the enemy's got and
when you kill him you've got more ammo. I'll become an
ancient warrior. Hey, there were several troops that
repelled English redcoats that were in their 70s back
then. No different now, I'm still a Ranger!

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Yeti
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Posted: November 05 2017 at 12:45pm | IP Logged Quote Yeti

I tend to agree with Wade. While 22lr is a great relatively quiet round I would
want either a 223 or 308 rifle. While I love my AR's I would choose something
that blended in with the food gathering crowd. As we have discussed the new
generation of plastic rifles are cheap, accurate and mostly ugly. That is how I
want to blend in.

For a pistol I would choose either my HK USP45 or my Sig Mk23. Both run
flawlessly and will last longer than me. The Mk23 with 20 round magazines is a
lot of firepower.

Knife? I have a lot of them so that is a tough decision. A folder with a heavy
blade is my edc. In a survival scenario I would lean towards one of my fixed
blades to KISS. It would probably be one of my Spyderco Bill Moran knives or a
heavier Esee knife. The Moran knife is nice and light but not as durable as the
Esee knives.

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KinleyWater
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Posted: November 05 2017 at 3:44pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Well, for me, it would be my S&W M69 and Marlin 1894; both in 44 Mag/ Spl. Sure, not the best for getting squirrel or birds, but I can load it down for small game, and up for big.

But, really, it isn't as if I'm going to run into the hills. So, what I really need is something to kill hogs, coyote, fox, maybe a deer, and definitely a person making a poor life choice.

If I'm worried about the downfall of structure in society; I'm not going to settle for just one of each and the rule of thumb is: the more times it can go bang before running out, the better. Caliber, manufacturer, and style are just bonuses; though Wade is 100% on about 9mm and 5.56 - they're about as common as you get.

Knife? I need another one of those. My Gerber Easy Out is getting to retirement age.

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Atavist
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Posted: November 05 2017 at 8:27pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

If i had a 44mag or 357 rifle I think going matched ammo set would be a good way to go... Though Wade does indeed have a good point... a few years ago when it looked more likely for gun bans to continue I bought 3 mini 14's... when things sorta went the other way I sold them at a profit, without an apocalypse looming they just sat in the safe. I know plenty of guys hunt with 5.56/.223 but i just never felt comfortable with it for medium sized game.
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John P.
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Posted: November 06 2017 at 10:03am | IP Logged Quote John P.

Based on the scenario, it sounds like I'd be on the move. I would go for
the most common guns, in the most common calibers, in order to locate
parts and ammo to keep them running. I would pick an AR platform and
a Glock 17 along with a Buck 105.

If I were in a stationary location such as a remote bug out shelter in the
wilderness my picks would be different. I'd go with an 870 12 ga. with
three barrels. A 28 inch REM choke with improved cylinder, modified,
and full chokes. The second barrel would be a 20 inch improved
cylinder with rifle sights for buckshot and lead slugs. The third barrel
would be a fully rifled cantilever with a 2-7x Nikon shotgun scope for
sabots.   The package would allow me small game hunting, big game
hunting to about 100-150 yards, and of course, self-defense. Handgun
would be a S&W 686 with a variety of ammo from light wadcutters to
heavy magnums. The knife would again be the Buck 105.   






Edited by John P. on November 06 2017 at 10:05am
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KinleyWater
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Posted: November 08 2017 at 4:56am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Atavist wrote:
... keep going in circles on how one
would bug out with a family... do you train
and arm them like a fire team or just go all
common platform...

Got a few beers in me and always end up
contemplating largely unrealistic scanarios.


As someone who's lived in some less than amazing places in this great nation (thanks Sam), I can say that this has been on my mind more than a few times. The conclusion I have come to is that first and foremost, you need to have a plan in place (e.g. we will meet at X and go to Y). It doesn't have to be fancy since it will likely get modified along the way.

For weapons; whatever they are comfortable with, as you already observed. We are actually modifying out plans so our evacuation bags will have a separate firearm attached to them; something we are both familiar with and can readily employ. I mean each bag will have an identical firearm. This is largely as a result of lessons learned from the most recent California wildfires. People in some cases had less than a minute to grab and go; so even having your EDC on the nightstand may be too far away.

For training, Personally, I believe the number one thing after personal defense, is medical training - the more the better. Training like a fire team would be awesome... IF I could get my hands on a SAW... So; common platform would probably be the way I would go. That said, I think you need to decide what you think you might experience and go from there.

At one point I lived just outside New Orleans. Our plan and our focus was on 1) surviving day to day. (local radio station would have bets on how many people would get murdered on a given weekend) 2) Hurricane evacuation. 3) Fire evacuation (our townhouse complex had at least one person cooking meth).

Finally, as I wrote above about the recent wildfires, you keep your finger on the pulse of what's happening and incorporate lessons you learn. Anyone not thinking about church shootings and your own risk/ mitigation?

Sorry, long, bloviating post (steps down from soap box).

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MontanaWolf
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Posted: November 08 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote MontanaWolf

Guess for me its my PPQ cuz I have mags and ammo, my 223 or my 7.62, same reason but lean to the 223 cuz ammo is lighter, course our troops were overwhelmed and changed platforms to the 308 when the enemy learned to stay at distances the 7.62 could hit but not the 223. Knife, my good old swing blade. But I would also have a multi gadget tool too!!!
If the wife is included, the same except I'd have her do the 223 while I do the 7.62 for diversity.... on the other hand nice to have the same weapons so you can fix at least one if both go bad.
Old Ranger's got a great point on his answer (man don't you just hate saying something like that to him? . Ahhh well, every old dog has his day I guess.
I think any of the most common calibers would be best except the 22 in my humble opinion. They are to weak and short distant that is why I do a 223, + it can drop a big game critter at close to moderate distances. 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP all good, 223, 7.69x 32, 308, 30-06 all good too. 12ga in SG, like the Mossberg 500 or 835 where you can change barrels to slug or shot.
Edited several times for I am the King of Typos!

Edited by MontanaWolf on November 08 2017 at 10:39am


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BaronJamison
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Posted: November 09 2017 at 1:00am | IP Logged Quote BaronJamison

Ranch 13 wrote:
I'ld take a 22 pistol, and a model 94
30-30, my knife would be the Leatherman
wave and pocket knife I carry daily.


Now, that's a great combination!
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Atavist
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Posted: November 09 2017 at 10:09pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

I know i'm the one that started it but this discussion has me really thinking about committing to a Miroku 1873 in 357... would be a good mate for my smoke wagon and the wife's sp101... i know people talk about the 73 being "weak" but from what I'm getting the new ones are holding up great with full power factory loads.

If she keeps her scoped 270 we would have pretty good combo for small to medium game and long range medium game.... and 357 is a great man killer obviously.



Edited by Atavist on November 09 2017 at 10:11pm
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Ranch 13
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Posted: November 10 2017 at 6:03am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

BaronJamison wrote:
Ranch 13 wrote:
I'ld take a 22 pistol, and a
model 94
30-30, my knife would be the Leatherman
wave and pocket knife I carry daily.


Now, that's a great combination!


Well here's my reasoning on this. If a person is bugging out, that means the
intention to stand and fight isn't there, so combat weapons and massive
amounts of ammunition aren't required. The purpose in bugging out would
seem to me to be as inconspicuous as possible, but yet be able to feed oneself
and yet be prepared to stop any encroachment on your safety zone,
The 22 pistol will put most meat requirements in the pot, with minimal noise,
also a brick of ammunition weighs little and provides enough ammo for a very
long time.
The 30-30 will quickly dispatch with a single round anything the 22 pistol at
close quarters won't. 2-3 boxes of ammo should probably last several years
unless you're discovered and lets face it, in today's technology war fare, a
drone with hell fires, or a Cobra gun ship will have you eliminated before you
could empty the magazine any way.


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Ranch 13
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Posted: November 10 2017 at 6:05am | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Atavist wrote:
I know i'm the one that started it but this discussion has me
really thinking about committing to a Miroku 1873 in 357... would be a good
mate for my smoke wagon and the wife's sp101... i know people talk about the
73 being "weak" but from what I'm getting the new ones are holding up great
with full power factory loads.

If she keeps her scoped 270 we would have pretty good combo for small to
medium game and long range medium game.... and 357 is a great man killer
obviously.



A simple reloading kit containing some primers and a lb of unique powder, that
357 would serve well for the bug out situation.

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