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Atavist
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Posted: November 07 2017 at 8:09pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Just saw a youtube video and the guy had some
kind of 45-70 shotgun load... the kids
started screaming and I had to turn it off so
didn't catch who made them but being as I
don't plan on buying them no biggy... anyone
ever played with a shot load in a 45-70?

Love to hear your recipes and methods.

If I have to wing it I'll probably put 300gr
of varget under a cut to fit wad fill her
with shot then close her up with paraffin
wax... I'm sure you guys will let me know if
that's a bad idea for some reason.
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joed
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Posted: November 07 2017 at 9:00pm | IP Logged Quote joed

I wouldn't do 300 gr of varget, you'll be joining Wade's neighbor.   
I'm sure you meant 30.0 gr though.

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Atavist
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Posted: November 07 2017 at 9:27pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

joed wrote:
I wouldn't do 300 gr of varget,
you'll be joining Wade's neighbor.   
I'm sure you meant 30.0 gr though.


Good catch. Definitely a fat finger there...

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richhodg66
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Posted: November 08 2017 at 6:15am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

There's lots and lots on info on making shot loads for big revolver rounds like .45 Colt and .44 Special. Seems like it would work the same for a big case like that.

Understand, rifled barrels throw big, donut shaped patterns that will have a hole in the middle of them beyond 10-15 feet. The general wisdom seems to be that this effect is worse the longer the barrel you shoot it in, so snubby revolvers seem to be best and really only good for snakes at close range (and a big stick or rock works better in my experience).

Try it if you like, but I don't think you're going to find them useful for much.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: November 08 2017 at 1:06pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Rich is quite right. Patterns poorly.

Done a buck & ball load in the past with .457" ball and
some #4 shot. Forgotten the amount of unique I used...
But birdshot or plain buckshot was a waste of time and
lead. The buck & ball load was underwhelming beyond a few
yards as well....

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richhodg66
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Posted: November 08 2017 at 3:13pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I have seen what people called a pawn shop load of three .457 round balls. Seems like they spread out to three inches or so at 25 yards when I read about them. That would be a formidable home defense load, but probably useless beyond very short ranges.

Some reading on the topic here;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?12994-Tri-Bal l-load

Edited by richhodg66 on November 08 2017 at 3:28pm


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REM1875
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Posted: November 09 2017 at 5:15am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I see if i can find my notes I had various result in my
experimentation with 2 or three 457 round balls and 45-
70 fired at a 55 gal drum.....it was fun though -turned
that marlin 45-70 into a fire breathing 15 shot
monster.....
0-0 buck will do the same for a 357......

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Toofarr24
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Posted: November 09 2017 at 9:26pm | IP Logged Quote Toofarr24

Henry firearms have actually started
producing .410 lever action shotguns. They
are basically a smooth bore 45-70
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Posted: November 09 2017 at 9:57pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

I'll have to hit some of my black powder buddies up and see if any of them have a .457 ball mold... they seem to shoot a pretty wide variety of calibers...

as for the .410... that was the first thing i tried (since I had an old box sitting around) unfortunately the rim is too small to seat properly and the extractor (not ejector) doesn't grab the rim... it might go bang but then i'd have to punch it out with a rod.

I'll have to play with case space.. see how many of what size shot fits under a 457 when i can find some..

no sweat on the spiraling donut patterning... i'm not really looking for anything long range... just fun range or home defense rounds.
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REM1875
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Posted: November 09 2017 at 11:57pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Atavist
Most BP revolvers shoot 452 round balls --The Ruger Old
Army BP Revolver was the main one that shot 457- a fact
that saw more than few of my 45-70 cast bullets rip down
the barrel.
Interesting side note is there are loads listed for 4-F
Powder-That's F-F-F-F powder usually reserved for flash
pans on flintlocks- for the Ruger Old Army which will
cause flame cutting on the top strap but causes one hell
of a whoomfff that's not to be missed......

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Buffalogun
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Posted: November 10 2017 at 4:40pm | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

I'd look into some of Speer's shot capsules for the .45 colt. They are made to be used in rifled barrels.




Mike

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RT58
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Posted: November 11 2017 at 8:45am | IP Logged Quote RT58

I've shot a lot of shot loads in my revolvers, but never had a .45-70 to play with. I don't know how well the Varget will work, most of the things I read suggested to use .410 shotshell data for the .45-70, .444 Marlin and etc. I usually used Bullseye or Unique for my revolvers.

If you do become concerned about the circular patterns you can make your own shot cups with a little experimentation. The only problem is the more material in the shot cup the fewer pellets it'll hold. I did it with .410 AA wads cut down to length for a .41 mag, but it wasn't worth the effort. You can also get better shot density by using smaller shot, but that reduces penetration.

And you probably meant to mention it, but you might want to use another paper wad under the wax. Unless you are trying to make a "Mag-Safe" load.
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RB in GA
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Posted: November 18 2017 at 9:22am | IP Logged Quote RB in GA

I generally hunt with my NEF 44 mag. With 22in barrel it's still more compact than my 20 in Marlin. Years ago I commented to a friend that I tend to see more Rabbit during late fall deer season than any other time. Walking in or out of my stand I'd jump one at least 50% of the time, but not much I could do with 240g hard cast in the chamber. We talked about Speer snake shot but #12 shot is awful small for rabbit.

Hmmm, I made my own shot-shells. Take a primed case and charge it with about 4g of W231. Punch a card wad with a case and hammer and seat over the powder, dump in some #4 shot and another card wad with some Elmer's smeared over the top to hold her in place.

Not the best pattern, but very effective on squirrel/rabbit at 20 feet.


Edited by RB in GA on November 18 2017 at 9:29am
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Atavist
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Posted: November 18 2017 at 2:28pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Got in my order of 457 lead ball today. three balls come in at 435grs... I run 44grs Varget behind my 535gr bullets and get right at 1450fps... i think i can get about 35grs under three balls... I'm going to guess 1200fps maybe... will probably be after thanksgiving before i can get to the range to find out...

... not sure what I'm loading this for... just fun really... may be a good round for defense against big cats... they get pretty aggressive here... every year it seems someone i know kills one at close range that is stalking them while they are deer hunting.

Any recommendations on what to pack the dead space in the case with if i want to also try the same powder but with just one ball? will be about an empty inch. Cotton balls? felt?
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Yeti
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Posted: November 20 2017 at 7:54pm | IP Logged Quote Yeti

"not sure what I am loading for... just fun really"

This says it all. I can't wait to see, or hear, about your results. I have a 45-70 #1
but would really love to add a lever gun to the mix. This load could be fun...

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Old Ranger
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Posted: November 20 2017 at 9:21pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Drop 9gr Unique without any stuff in the case for a
single round ball. Coated with LLA and a very light
crimp. Be about like a mild 45Colt. Any more and you're
sure to get leading.

Point to remember. To stabilize a round ball in a 1:22"
barrel you gotta keep the velocity down a bit. It'll
begin to strip off lead as it's skipping down the bore.
It ain't no 1:66" like a .45cal muzzleloader.

If ya wanna have some weird fun get some 45 cal sabot
cups that hold a .357 bullet for 45cal ML rifle. You can
also shoot 375" (36cal c&b revolver) round ball with the
sabot and really get some high vel stuff with little
recoil or chamber pressure. The sabot is long enough to
be stable in the 45-70 bore.

Wouldn't use Varget with stacked R B. But that's just a
personal opinion..... Pistol powders in moderation would
be practical on that I'd say. And no, I no longer
have that data since I sent all my 45-70 stuff along with
some moulds and such with the rifle to my brother in S.
Dakota last year.

Edited by Old Ranger on November 20 2017 at 9:40pm


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Atavist
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Posted: November 20 2017 at 10:19pm | IP Logged Quote Atavist

So I guess this is a split thread post...
I'll have to cut paste it to the 30-06
discussion... just loaded up a small batch of
rounds... for the both guns I started
simple.. did 4 rounds each... 5.5, 6, 6.5, 7,
7.5 gr bullseye. The 45-70 is a single 457
ball which weighs in at 144gr and the 30-06
is a Hornaday 90gr jacketed hollow point

Hoping to get to the range wednesday...

With the 45-70 had some persnickity ball size
and crimp issues... they are Berry's balls
but seem pretty inconsistent in size... or
maybe it's my brass... some dropped into the
case lower than I wanted, others were a very
slight press fit...   I just took it all in
stride did a slight roll crimp on all... and
we'll see what happens at the range.

Edited by Atavist on November 20 2017 at 10:20pm
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REM1875
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Posted: November 21 2017 at 3:41am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I always picture the crowd headed to get DR Frankenstein
when I ask myself why I am loading 5 three ball 45 -70
into the rifle........ ya just never know when it will
come in handy.
I need to try these in my BFR revolver......

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Atavist
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Posted: November 21 2017 at 8:54am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

Old Ranger wrote:
Drop 9gr Unique without any stuff in the case for a
single round ball. Coated with LLA and a very light
crimp. Be about like a mild 45Colt. Any more and you're
sure to get leading.

Point to remember. To stabilize a round ball in a 1:22"
barrel you gotta keep the velocity down a bit. It'll
begin to strip off lead as it's skipping down the bore.
It ain't no 1:66" like a .45cal muzzleloader.

If ya wanna have some weird fun get some 45 cal sabot
cups that hold a .357 bullet for 45cal ML rifle. You can
also shoot 375" (36cal c&b revolver) round ball with the
sabot and really get some high vel stuff with little
recoil or chamber pressure. The sabot is long enough to
be stable in the 45-70 bore.

Wouldn't use Varget with stacked R B. But that's just a
personal opinion..... Pistol powders in moderation would
be practical on that I'd say. And no, I no longer
have that data since I sent all my 45-70 stuff along with
some moulds and such with the rifle to my brother in S.
Dakota last year.


I've actually been looking for an appropriate sabot... locally all i've been able to find are 452 sabots.... I need to do some looking online to see if I can find 457.

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Atavist
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Posted: November 21 2017 at 8:56am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

REM1875 wrote:
I always picture the crowd headed to get DR Frankenstein
when I ask myself why I am loading 5 three ball 45 -70
into the rifle........ ya just never know when it will
come in handy.
I need to try these in my BFR revolver......


One use I'm thinking is home defense... two barrels throwing 3 balls each at 45 colt speeds would be a hell of a thump for an intruder.

... ever find those notes?
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