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Dragon
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 2:50am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

I used to have problems loading hollow point bullets.
The round nosed bullet seater would round the opening sometimes completely closing it up.
The flat point seater would crush or flatten the nose of the bullet, closing up those with exposed lead noses.
A friend, a master machinist, also a re-loader , and I discussed the problem. I thought a seating dies that used a stem, down into the HP opening might solver the problem.
Using a flat point seating die (RCBS) he made a couple to try out.
One die had a long straight stem in the center the other a tapered stem in the center.
I used both for many years, most often the tapered stem, as it seemed work best.
I have tried to interest RCBS in making such a seating unit, but have received no response, as I would like to have such as option for 9mm, .38/.357, .44 and .45acp (.452).
I think with interest for hunting or self defense these would be a great option for the re-loadind dies ?

Edited by Dragon on 21 November 2017 at 2:52am


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REM1875
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 3:56am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

Makes sense, a lot of sense...

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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 7:35am | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

I had that same problem years ago but just made the flare a little more and all issues went away. Craig

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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 9:03am | IP Logged Quote Atavist

I'm with Desert Eagle... I've never had this problem with hollow points... might shorten case life a bit but sounds like a problem that a bigger flare might fix.... that said your modified seater also sounds like a working solution if a person can make one.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: 21 November 2017 at 9:35am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

In reading bullet reviews, I have seen people refer to this problem as well. Not all hollow points seem to have this complaint leveled against them, but many do. I expect that the problem is a combination of factors, including: amount and hardness of exposed lead, case flare (as noted), ogive profile, and the type of seating die used. So different people will get different results.

I only have personal experience with Nosler Sporting Handgun .429 bullets and Hornady .430 LSWC-HP; loading .44 Magnum and .44 Spl, respectively. I have not had issues with either using LEE dies.

As a trained machinist, I always love to hear solutions like this.

And Welcome to the Forum!

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Dragon
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Posted: 22 November 2017 at 6:01am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

The Remington 158HP's with the exposed lead were the worst problem as the soft lead distorted easily, but terminal performance was rated good.
I bought a lot in bulk so I needed to solve the issues.
Jacked hollow points do not seem to be affected as much, mostly I do .45acp. not much problems with those bullets.
I rely mostly on RCBS for my reloading, except for Lee Factory crimp dies.
Since I retired I miss talking with other reloaders/shooters, 1911 forum is about the only other place I post.
In .429 caliber it's mostly 300 grain, for long range accuracy (200 yard)

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KinleyWater
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Posted: 22 November 2017 at 9:24am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

I have read the same complaint regarding their 180gr HP as well. If I remember, they have quit a bit of exposed lead in both weights.

200 yards? Yup, I need more practice.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: 22 November 2017 at 9:42pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Over the past several decades I've actually loaded very
few JHP in my handguns. But even so, I've had my share of
seating stem issues with some cast rounds. The very worst
was a .38Spl seating die by Lee. That one deformed more
bullets than shooting into a brick wall!

Most of my loading gear is old Lyman stuff, and some
RCBS. AA dies in .38 with either 310L or 429L seating
stems and the round nose and SWC by RCBS in .44mag/Spl
cover most of my cast and the occasional JHP bullets.

Laugh if you like, but the best seating dies I own and
use are in my old Lyman 310 dies. The 310L .38Spl round
nose seating stem in the 310 die fits those Remingtons
and Speers great. RCBS 44 round nose seating stem did
fine with Hornady JHP. But the Lee stuff deformed
everything.

A pointed seating stem that fits into the hollow point of
a bullet is a novel idea. My concern would be in allowing
the bullet to cant or tilt off center as it presses the
bullet into the case. However, I have seen poorly fitted
seating stems do just that. The concept of one that
aligns with the hole in the nose may not be such a bad
thing if the bullet enters and remains centered in the
case. With the pressure concentrated in the very center
of the bullet, fitted exactly to the shape of the hole
itself, could just do the trick if it doesn't punch into
the lead core and create seating depth issues.

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REM1875
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 1:36am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I use Hornady XTPs - even at speeds way over max the
won't expand - so no dang press and die are going to
wreck that hollow point.
I hope they have now fixed that but I have hundreds to
still use up.... in more sizes than one.
When ya can't get 32 acp rounds to open at 327 federal
magnum speeds or 38/357 in a 357 MAX.......
And I did try them at the recommended speeds before I
stepped em up.... In multiple mediums including oak...
Next is 45 ACP out of a 460 and I am hoping ....


Edited by REM1875 on 23 November 2017 at 1:37am


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Dragon
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 2:26am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

The 300 grain at 200 yards were from a 7.5 inch Redhawk, they seemed most accurate at around 1150fps to 1200fps. For Bear I tried 1500fps, but it ain't fun to shoot those, and accuracy wasn't as good as at the slower velocity.

Edited by Dragon on 23 November 2017 at 2:45am


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Dragon
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 2:34am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

The problem with the bullets "bottoming out" in the seating die might be from the wrong diameter expander ?
I don't know how much opening up the belling would do, if the bullet is kissing the seating dies stop at depth ?
The barrel of the seating die works to hold the bullet centered, while the stem keeps it from tipping off center, it also means the hollow point can't close up, because the stem keeps it open.
On the exposed lead HP's it provided a kind of bevel on the inside of the lead, I don't know how this might effect the expansion capability, it didn't seem to bother it.

Edited by Dragon on 23 November 2017 at 2:54am


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Dragon
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 2:44am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

My reloading equipment is mostly RCBS, with a couple of old Herter dies and some Lee.
I have one set of Hornady dies in 450 Alaskan and another, I can't remember who makes, as I haven't used them in years.    

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Old Ranger
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 6:26am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

These days I use the carbide sizing die on the bench and
the rest are worked with the 310 tong tool. The expansion
die in 38/357 is dead perfect. Just the right amount of
flair to start the base without any deformed edges and
just enough expansion to allow the bullet to enter the
case with no change in diameter yet enough tension to
help hold it in place.

Thinking on the pointed seating stem reminds me of how I
kept the flat nose of the old Gordon Boser 429360 SWC
from deformation in the sizing press and the seating stem
in the loading dies. Sometimes ya gotta build a better
mouse trap huh?

I forgot to welcome you to the forum. Sorry about that.
Getting a little forgetful about some things. But old age
aside, "Howdy from Texas! And welcome aboard!"

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Dragon
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 9:26am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

   Thanks for the welcome from all of you.
I have a friend around Houston, somewhere, he is running the ASA veterans site online
The stem on the HP seater is rounded at the bottom, so as not to pierce the lead core
I do a lot of my prep work with a Lee hand press then switch to the RCBS Partner press for serious work.
The Lee lets me deprime and size where ever I choose to..
I use carbide dies every where I can, I had a case stick in one of Herter dies, (long ago) once was enough.
I switched from case lube to Imperial sizing wax a few
years back
I like the fact that any of the 30-06 based brass or .308 based brass can be converted to .45acp when the neck splits.

Edited by Dragon on 23 November 2017 at 9:28am


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Ham Gunner
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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 4:44pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Most any decent machinist could make one up a proper fitting seating stem or top punch.

Erik can likely make up a bullet seating stem for about any type of die I would think. He makes up seating top punches for any cast bullet as well.

Hollow point molds, etc.

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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 6:08pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Dragon wrote:
   The 300 grain at 200 yards were from a 7.5 inch Redhawk, they seemed most accurate at around 1150fps to 1200fps. For Bear I tried 1500fps, but it ain't fun to shoot those, and accuracy wasn't as good as at the slower velocity.


I'll keep that in mind. 200 is still quite the distance to me.

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Posted: 23 November 2017 at 8:50pm | IP Logged Quote RB in GA

25 years ago, I was chasing the JHP craze and trying to
simulate my Speer 125 Golden Saber carry round. I ordered
a box of these pricey jewels to load up in 38+p like the
carry ammo.

If remember the RCBS round-nose seating stem leaving a
nasty looking ring on the ogive from the edge of the
stem. I used a trick the old-timers would pull out when
seating something problematic... Cram a ball of tin-foil
up in the seating die to fill in the gaps. Works but you
have to progressively seat and check to get the correct
depth.
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Dragon
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Posted: 24 November 2017 at 6:02am | IP Logged Quote Dragon

The 200 yard was kind of a group thing among a half dozen guys that shot together.
The rules were, 1-open sights
                   2- it had to be handheld (although resting your elbows on the bench was expectable)
                   3-revolvers (usually 5 rounds in the gun)

I would have trouble with the lack optics now, glasses would be a must

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Posted: 24 November 2017 at 9:12am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

That does sound fun. My brother and I shoot at 100 at the local range with our carry pistols. Mostly for the challenge, but also to annoy everyone shooting rifle .

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Posted: 24 November 2017 at 2:03pm | IP Logged Quote mikld

I once had some Nosler HPBT seconds that had a slightly
ragged mouth on the HP. I was getting variations in the seating
depth from the inconsistent noses so I drilled out the seating
stem so the stem/bullet contact was on the ogive rather than the
bullet's nose. Problem solved...

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