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Joined: January 06 2018
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Posted: January 07 2018 at 7:05pm | IP Logged Quote ricochet65

I appreciate your feedback. I don't think the gun powder amount is the issue here. Those few rounds went bang normal and they were pretty much clean after extraction except for the rim area. With 21.5gr I think I've found that balanced charge. Average out of ten rounds ran through my chronograph was 2875 fps, and my standard deviation improved about 30%. I reduced the amount of powder from 22gr to 21.5gr since I was getting readings a little too hot, averaging 3205 fps. I didn't do 100 yards but I am happy with my several under-a-inch groups at fifty yards. I am sure that it will improve by using better brass. Thanks!!

Edited by ricochet65 on January 07 2018 at 7:28pm
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Joined: November 19 2017
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Posted: January 13 2018 at 2:38pm | IP Logged Quote hdwhit

I find myself distressed at the number of shooters who claim to "need" a rifle capable of "sub-MOA" accuracy. This is because I have found few shooters who are actually capable of exploiting the capabilities of a "sub-MOA" rifle.

For me, my accuracy standard is whether I can put at least nine out of ten rounds into the circular divot on the side of a plastic milk jug at 100 yards. Firing offhand.

Depending on who made the milk jug, the divot runs between about 2.75 and 3.5 inches in diameter which makes me about a 4 MOA shooter.

My attitude - and its a prejudice I inherited from my grandmother and grandfather - has always been that you can't expect the deer to walk in front of your bench, so you need to learn to shoot offhand and that will determine your real accuracy in the only way that counts; whether you can feed your hungry brothers and sisters.   
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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 6:53am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I reckon it's a personal thing. Some folks are satisfied
with reasonable performance of their toys. A stock car
performs to the design and functions well. Yet there are
folks that absolutely must modify that same vehicle far
beyond the original specifications in order to extract
"everything it's got". Shooters are much the same. Take
the AR15. Today's "All American Rifle". It's been
accurized, hundreds of accessories built just for this
one weapon. Last century it was high power bolt actions
and the one before that was leverguns and bigbore single
shots. And now, as then, there are many that seek the
tightest group from their rifle as the car owner searches
for the most horsepower. Why? Ego, O.C.D., competitive
spirit, or like with the AR15 [the MSR] with so much crap
to hang on it, some look absolutely stupid. Yet countless
stock AR15 rifles are modified to look "tactical & cool".

And yet folks are often obsessed with über tight groups.
It's the "yardstick" of rifle performance. Man's
obsession to shoot the second arrow into the first,
splitting it, at the king's tournament thus proving he
and his bow are superior. People are competitive by their
very nature. Even if just with one's self. Wanting a
rifle that shoots one ragged hole at a hundred isn't
weird at all. After all, it's only human nature.

Edited by Old Ranger on January 14 2018 at 6:58am

"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
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Ham Gunner
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 12:26pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Only field condition shooting will reveal the truth.

I certainly agree with Wade for the answer as to why most want all the accuracy that they can muster from whatever they are shooting. Human nature to try to reach higher.

Here is an example of why that desire is actually quite useful even for those that are unknowingly shooting much less accurately than they suspect in the field. If ones rifle is capable of 1 minute groups from a bench rest and their shaky hunting situation is only capable of 4 minute groups then they could find themselves shooting a possible 4" or so group at just 100 yards/meters, which might or might not be acceptable for some short range shooting.

If their rifle was not accurized as it could be and the ammo was not accurized as it could be and they found that bench rest group only capable of 2 1/2 minute, then their shaky hunting rest would be capable of distorting that bench rest 2 1/2 minute group into about a 10" group in the field at just 100 yards/meters.

That would not be good enough in my opinion, except for the very shortest hunting situations of far less than 100 yards. True, a good portion of hunting is done less than 100 yards, but I will strive to achieve more accuracy than I might actually need rather than less.

I know what the point is about trying to over achieve beyond usefulness, but even unintentionally, those that blindly strive for < minute accuracy are aiding their humane hunting ability by getting a normally clean kill with the first shot even if they are only capable of say, 4 minute hunting accuracy.

Edited by Ham Gunner on January 14 2018 at 1:41pm

73 de n0ubx Rick - NRA BENEFACTOR LIFE MEMBER/VFW LIFE MEMBER - A government big enough to GIVE you
everything you want, is strong enough to TAKE everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson

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Posted: January 14 2018 at 8:54pm | IP Logged Quote LAH

ricochet65 wrote:
one the last few rounds I fired I
noticed blackened case rims as well as the action
(ejector area on the bolt)dirtier than normal. I stopped
firing as a precaution of course. Is this a sign of
something wrong on my loads or is it normal?
This is my load data:
H-335 powder: 21.5gr
Remington 55gr FMJ bullets
CCI 400 primers

Were the case necks blacken also? I shoot a bunch of
those 55 gr. FMJ bullets but use a bit more H-335 than
21.5 grs. Can't say you're under loaded but you might do
some searching.

Joshua 1:9
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 7:06am | IP Logged Quote Buffalogun

Old Ranger wrote:

People are competitive by their very nature. Even if just with one's self.

The shooting "system" is made of three parts. Firearm, ammunition and shooter. If all three are operating correctly and in harmony, the results are small groups on the target. However, if any one part falls, the whole system falls.

Consistency is the name of the game. I can't hold a firearm still enough offhand to be consistent.

So what are small groups? Instant gratification for doing everything correctly. Its what drives the benchrest shooters and the BPCR boys.

Hitting a six foot diameter bullseye at 1,000 yds/meters doesn't just happen. It takes work.

I frequently shoot by myself because I'm trying to shoot a little better than the previous session. Its the best way to get better at what you do.


"Please Mr. Custer.......I don't want to go" Larry Verne
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