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hdwhit
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Posted: January 13 2018 at 1:51pm | IP Logged Quote hdwhit

When my grandfather passed away, I ended up inheriting his M1911A1 45 ACP pistol along with one box of World War II vintage ammunition and two boxes of Korean War vintage ammunition (which I have treated as collectors items even thought I don't know that they are).

The first time I shoot a gun that is new to me, I shoot a box of factory ammunition through it. That way if there is a problem, I can eliminate my reloads as a potential source of the problem. After that, it's only my stuff.

So, I went to the local gun store (which has since gone out of business) and bought a 45 ACP Lee Speed Die (remember those?), a bag of previously fired brass and a box of 200 grain SWC bullets.

That was my first introduction to the fact 45 ACP brass comes in both small and large primer varieties.

So, another trip to the store for some large pistol primers later, I had a hundred rounds loaded up with some Hercules Blue Dot (which I already had). The load data I had from Hercules didn't specify any difference in load for small versus large primers, so I loaded every case the same.

At the range, I really couldn't tell the difference between the large primer rounds and the small primer rounds, but while I'm a competent shooter, I'm far from a precision shooter. Is this the experience that everyone else has, or is there a real difference (beyond the obvious "oops" moment when you try to shove a large primer into a small primer pocket) that I need to be watching out for?
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hdwhit
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Posted: January 13 2018 at 2:04pm | IP Logged Quote hdwhit

I should also mention that I'm about 75 days from retirement (assuming my last case wraps up as planned, otherwise I'm 105 or maybe 135 days away).

In any case, my take-home pay is going to drop by several hundred dollars a month. To help ease that transition, I spent the last few years laying in enough reloading supplies to last me through most - if not all - of my retirement.

And that means I have a bunch of prepared (cleaned, sized, expanded, primed) brass ready to go in both large and small primer varieties. What I'm looking for is the voice of experience to tell me whether I need to adjust my loadings for small primer versus large primer cases when I load them.

When I do a new load, I follow the standard "ladder" protocol; beginning with the Starting load and working up incrementally. When I use an existing recipe, I start there and continue. Starting loads are usually 85%-88% of maximum and I usually find a "sweet spot" somewhere between about 92%-94% of the maximum load, so I'm not chasing or exceeding maximum.

I don't want my nickname to be "lefty" or "one eye jack".
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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 13 2018 at 2:39pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?
TID=35981&PN=1

Asked and answered. Hope the link works. I'm no computer
guy.. Anyway, discussed to infinity and beyond!

Edited by Old Ranger on January 13 2018 at 2:44pm


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hdwhit
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Posted: January 13 2018 at 3:46pm | IP Logged Quote hdwhit

Thanks, Old Ranger. I'll read the posts in the link.
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STCM(SW)
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Posted: January 13 2018 at 5:24pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

I didn't read the link, but I just get rid of SPP brass for the .45 ACP.
A real PIA to me....
I have so much 45 acp brass that missing a few hundred
won't make a difference.....

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Paul B.
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Posted: January 22 2018 at 2:30pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

OK, large or small primers apparently is no difference regarding loads,
at least that has been my experience. The important thing is to keep
the two different primer size cases separate. Some of that WW2 ammo
may have a completely different size primer as well, not the standard
large size no the standard small size. I don't remember when they
changed to the standard large size primer but IIRC, it was sometime
mid WW2.

On that WW2 and Korean ammo, the WW2 is corrosive primed for sure
and the Korean War issue could be depending on the date.
Supposedly the US went to noncorrosive priming in 1951 but I
understand some as late as 1952 could still have corrosive primers. I
have some .45 ACP ammo from 1917 loaded with Bullseye powder.
Sez so right on the box of 20 rounds from the Frankford Arsenal. Had a
few loose rounds of the stuff as well, so broke them down. Charge
looked like Bullseye and was 5.0 gr. on the nose. Official data on the
.45 ACP stated the original load was 5.0 gr. Bullseye with 230 gr. FMJ
bullet.
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Pete D.
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 5:19am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Yes....5.0 grains of Bullseye and a 230 FMJ.
The classic target load is 4.0 grains of Bullseye and a 200 grain LSWC.

Focus on large primered cases. The vast majority of .45 ACP brass is
large primerd.
Dates: as noted by Paul earlier...WW2 brass was promed with
corrosive primers. If you have any, throw them away.
Some match ammo WRA 54 was corrosive but you are not likely to find
any..
The problem with the brass is that the corrisive salts embed themselves
in the brass (unless it was washed) and the brass is subsequently
weakened

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Paul B.
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 12:29pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

"The problem with the brass is that the corrisive salts embed
themselves
in the brass (unless it was washed) and the brass is subsequently
weakened."

That's not quite correct. Corrosive priming does not affect brass.
However, early priming compounds while corrosively primed also had
mercury as part of the priming compound. This could not be removed
and made the brass brittle. I've found old fired cartridges out in the
desert, all sun darkened and while some were just fine and could be
reloaded, some could be so brittle as to be easily crushed between
two fingers. FWIW, early 30-30 brass was the most common of that
condition. Older stuff like 45-70 and 44-40 were treated gently and
added to my cartridge case collection.
I once found some old UMC 30-30 brass. It felt nice and solid so I
resized it with no problem. When I went to expand the necks to
accommodate some cast bullets the cases just crumbled.
I forget what year but the was of IIRC 1960's era 30-06 match ammo
that for some odd reason was loaded with mercuric and corrosive
priming. Definitely not safe to reload. IIRC, the priming on that unfired
ammo found years later also attacked the brass of the cartridge case. I
understand a few people found out the hard way when their guns were
damaged or destroyed. Dunno why but for some reason the year 1964
sticks in my brain. Not sure if that's correct.
Paul B.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 03 2018 at 3:42pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I read someplace that the rationale behind the small primer .45ACP, was to make the web of the case stronger, which seems a bit odd since the ACP is such a low pressure round, the other reason was to reduce the amount of hazardous primer residue floating around.

I was out scrounging brass one day and found nearly an entire box of the SPP brass. Which I carry when out plinking at stuff with the .45, I do not look very hard for the brass when it comes out of the gun.
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mikld
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Posted: February 03 2018 at 4:36pm | IP Logged Quote mikld

Old story, , originally designed for "green ammo"
and at the time only lead free primers available were
small pistol. No conspiracy to confuse reloaders or
persuade reloaders, or whatever. Myriads of posted
tests say there isn't enough difference between the two
to matter, even with the worse case of OCD.

The only "problem" I've heard of is when a reloader
omits
inspecting cases and just dumps a bunch of brass in the
hopper of their progressive press. When a small primed
case reaches the primer seating station, things come to
a
quick stop...

Edited by mikld on February 03 2018 at 4:37pm


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 03 2018 at 6:01pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

mikld

I never noticed any difference in performance between the two, and I shoot them in both my automatics and my Blackhawk with the ACP cylinder.
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mikld
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Posted: February 03 2018 at 8:31pm | IP Logged Quote mikld

Yep,thats what I said. One of the first tests I read a
few years ago showed large primers ptoduced, sometimes, a
20-30 fps higher velocity, but most other reports showd
no
difference...


Edited by mikld on February 03 2018 at 8:31pm


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Kosh75287
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Posted: February 06 2018 at 11:04am | IP Logged Quote Kosh75287

I just set the SPP brass aside for use if I run out of or cannot obtain large pistol primers. Haven't had to use them yet, but as we saw 8 years ago, things can happen.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: February 06 2018 at 11:57am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Word is that NATO will be grabbing up all the ammo it can
get for the pending war with N Korea and the US will be
stripped of it's surplus. So......

LET THE HOARDING BEGIN!

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Kosh75287
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Posted: February 06 2018 at 12:18pm | IP Logged Quote Kosh75287

...yehright...
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Old Ranger
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Posted: February 06 2018 at 3:55pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Hey just passing along the latest internet scuttlebutt


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Pete D.
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Posted: February 08 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Quote:
Word is that NATO will be grabbing up all the ammo it can
get for the pending war....

So....we have a source of info in NATO logistics?

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Kosh75287
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Posted: February 09 2018 at 10:18am | IP Logged Quote Kosh75287

LMAO!

Yah, I find THAT far less likely than even the "internet scuttlebutt"! Ranks right up there with the used car salesman's "Son, I wouldn't be afraid to drive this here car to CALIFORNIA and back!" assertion, among others.

Hey! Since they're back on TV, now, maybe we should get MULDER & SCULLY to investigate the matter! THEY'LL get to the bottom (or the primer pocket?) of this!
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 09 2018 at 4:42pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Kosh75287

Be careful .. "The Truth is out there"!
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hdwhit
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Posted: February 09 2018 at 10:01pm | IP Logged Quote hdwhit

I do all my loading on a single stage press and I prepare and prime my brass separately, so an inadvertent mix of small and large primers is not a catastrophic problem.

Literally everything else I load is small pistol or small rifle primer, so I tend to gravitate towards small primer 45 brass simply for commonality.
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