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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 7:20am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

New grandson bought my granddaughter a Rossi .243Win
several months ago. Couple days ago after reducing a
massive trigger pull [21#] on an over & under .38 2 shot
derringer (likely spelled wrong) for his mother, he
handed me the Rossi to inspect. The complaint was 1 or
two shots on target then others hitting as far off the
mark as 2 feet!

I suspect the scope/mount. It's home with me now. I'll
find the issue. But what really got me was the weapon was
filthy! The bore was a dull black and green. The rifling
was almost invisible. Spots of rust here and there. Zero
oil on it. I was advised he never cleaned or oiled it
since he bought it last year. My granddaughter missed a
nice buck at 75m in November. She refused to use it and
took his Rem 700 .243Win I'd tuned up in October. It too
was filthy with spotting rust. Again, never cleaned or
oiled.

This is a pattern I've noted over the years in the
business when I was a gunsmith and later just helping
friends and family with weapons. Overall about 60% of all
weapons brought to me are filthy! Why? 75% of all the
"broken" weapons brought to my shop when active weren't
broken at all. They were so filthy they no longer worked.
Why?

Are people lazy? Untrained? Ignorant? Or a combination of
all three. And I've known some that refused to ever clean
their weapons claiming cleaning ruins accuracy. Not only
foolish, but outright stupid! I've long since ceased
arguing with these people. I've had more reasonable
conversations with my cats. And no, I'm NOT talking about
a fouling shot here. I mean flat out NEVER cleaning,
EVER!

I spent over an hour just removing the combination of
copper, carbon, and rust from the bore of the little 243.
Now that I can see the bore, the pitting is visible as
well. It's a 2015 model. Sad.....

I just shake my head and wonder why?

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Rex
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 7:59am | IP Logged Quote Rex

Wade, I have close relatives that are not good about cleaning guns either. I gave up and occasionally just pick up of them up and bring it home with me and work it over and return it.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 11:05am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Yep, my granddaughter knows a clean weapon is a
dependable weapon. Now all she's gotta do is convince her
husband of that. My fussing goes only so far. All she's
gotta do is bat her eyes a few times and smile. Then he's
putty in her hands! He's a likable lad, but was
never in the service nor around a genuine gun nut, well,
until now. Me and my little girl will train him up
Ranger style! Her AR15 is spotless as she cleans it every
time she shoots it. Her hubby says he cleans his guns
when they stop working. Gotta change that mindset.


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joed
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 11:39am | IP Logged Quote joed

I've met people that never clean a gun.   One guy I worked with was
heavy into IDPA and shot weekly.   In 2 years he never once cleaned
any of his guns.

You have to wonder about people like this.   Mine are cleaned after
being used.

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M700
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 1:50pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Good grief Wade!

I'd bet most of the folks on this forum are very good at keeping their firearms clean and in good shape.

Years ago at the WA State SWAT/Sniper school we had two out-of-state officers arrive for training. Their rifles were a bit unusual for the job, but not unsuitable. They had heavy-barrel Ruger M77's in .308 Win with 2-7x Leupold scopes.

Their initial 100 yard groups were terrible!

Closer inspection of their rifles revealed horrible bores! Dirty, filthy. They'd been told by their department armorer to never clean the bore!

So... We got them some cleaning gear and set about cleaning those things... The powder fouling came out first and fast. The fouling from the bullet jackets took a LOT of effort to remove.

Once that was done, the rifles began to settle down, and things improved for those two fellows. As I recall, eventually someone helped them adjust the triggers a bit better, but, I'm not sure about that. I do know that we took those rifles apart and cleaned 'em up real good and those two fellows actually shot real well afterwards.

Firearms are tools. If we want 'em to work well, they need to be treated well.

Guy
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KinleyWater
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Posted: January 18 2018 at 7:29am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Well, normally when someone asks me a question like "why?", my default answer is that God hates you . In this case, however, I think it has more to do with society moving away from having to rely on tools as a means of livelihood or survival.

What I mean by that is: If you work in a shop or on a job site, and need to provide your own tools, you tend to know how to take care of them. Likewise with firearms being the tools of your trade. As for those unfortunate gents Guy mentioned, I would tend to believe that they now understand the importance of caring for their tools and take better care of them. Sometimes, it's lacking a good mentor.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 18 2018 at 11:43am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Well like in the case of the new grandson, he and his
family hunt, but don't necessarily get into the guns that
much. They tend to look at the Firearms as something that
is used to make the hunting experience happen, but that's
as far as it goes. They are not interested truly in
maintaining or developing anything with the firearms.
Young new grandson however, is learning about Firearms
through his newly-acquired grandpa! His new grandpa is a
gun cleaning fanatic, so he has no choice but to learn
the right way. Haha haha haha!

But as Guy said they're tool that need to be maintained.
Just that some folks don't believe in maintenance. That's
why their cars break down, their water heaters quit
working, their house falls apart around them, and their
guns fail them at the worst opportune time.

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KinleyWater
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Posted: January 18 2018 at 8:29pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

I think we're seeing this the same. There is a big difference between just using a gun to go hunting and needing to hunt to survive (and I'm telling you, right? ). And now he has a good mentor.

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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 25 2018 at 9:25pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Well after mining all that copper out of the bore and
getting it clear of the other filth, I went to work on
accuracy.

Tried three different scopes and mounts. None of them
would stay on target. The one piece 4 screw weaver base
is solid. However, all efforts with the scopes were a
total flop.

Pulled the rubber bolt on cheek piece and then tested the
factory fibre optic sights. Three shot group at 50m was
under a half inch and three hits on the 100m plate were
about an inch and a half or so. That little Rossi single
shot can really sing when clean and scopes off of it. But
I wonder what it'll do with a red dot sight thingy? Will
the R.D. bounce around like a scope? Don't know. But none
the less it shoots good with iron sights. ......
And being clean too!

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M700
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Posted: January 25 2018 at 11:00pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Well, it has great potential then!

Good deal.
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Old Ranger
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Posted: January 26 2018 at 7:10am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Yeah, and it's clean too!

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 04 2018 at 8:36am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I had a little gunsmith business when I was in the service and most of the problems were just that a lack of maintenance.

A lady brought a gun in one day, a very nice double barrel shot gun, she said there was something wrong because she could got get it open.

Upon inspection the gun appeared to have a coating on it and the action was stuck shut. I asked her about the gun, she advised that some one told her that it should be oiled before being stored, so she poured some wesson oil down the barrel and liberally coated the outside.
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