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MartyMan
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 9:07am | IP Logged Quote MartyMan

Hoping for input on a 45 reloading issue: Sized / primed / belled cases fit perfectly in my Lyman gauge checker, resting easily against the case mouth, and pistol barrel, but after seating and crimping, they do not. Cartridge protrudes from the barrel by about 1/16" or so - so close, but not close enough. I am seating only (no crimp) with RCBS Seat / Crimp Die, then taper crimping / resizing with Lee Factory Crimp Die. Tied heavy crimp (damaged bullet, didn't work), light crimp ditto. Problem seems related to the crimp, but have not been able to identify the problem. Loading Berry's 124g jackets H.P. COL 1.200. Can these rounds be loaded with no crimp?
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M700
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 9:21am | IP Logged Quote M700

MartyMan wrote:
Hoping for input on a 45 reloading issue: Sized / primed / belled cases fit perfectly in my Lyman gauge checker, resting easily against the case mouth, and pistol barrel, but after seating and crimping, they do not. Cartridge protrudes from the barrel by about 1/16" or so - so close, but not close enough. I am seating only (no crimp) with RCBS Seat / Crimp Die, then taper crimping / resizing with Lee Factory Crimp Die. Tied heavy crimp (damaged bullet, didn't work), light crimp ditto. Problem seems related to the crimp, but have not been able to identify the problem. Loading Berry's 124g jackets H.P. COL 1.200. Can these rounds be loaded with no crimp?
MartyMan   


You have 124 grain .45 caliber bullets?

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M700
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 9:25am | IP Logged Quote M700

I load 45 ACP with my RCBS die set.

Just seat and taper-crimp with the supplied RCBS seating die, and it works great.


Give it a try? Works really well for me. I've loaded thousands of rounds of 45 on that die set, with no problems. Might go load some more later today, that die set is pretty much permanently set up on my turret press.

Give it a try and see how it goes, without the Lee FCD.

Regards, Guy
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M700
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 9:27am | IP Logged Quote M700

Oh - and I see this is your first post here. Welcome to the forum!

Regards, Guy
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Desert Eagle41
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 9:28am | IP Logged Quote Desert Eagle41

Your on the right track. Little to no crimp is the answer. I had the same issue with Berry's in 10mm and others. Switched to taper crimp with little to no crimp and Berry's worked fine. Just need to watch that recoil doesn't let the bullets slide out in the mag. If it does you need slightly more crimp but just a little. Craig

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RT58
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 10:12am | IP Logged Quote RT58

Yes, welcome to the forum.

I agree with M700 and suggest just using the RCBS die according to it's directions.

Auto cartridges use a taper crimp to keep the bullet from seating deeper during recoil, so it is probably better that you do use it, not to mention that a non tapered case may not fit into the chamber as well with a bullet seated.

Two other points to consider: 1) Make sure your bullets are being seated straight enough to not create a bulge in the case. 2) I've never loaded plated bullets and don't know how different they are from lead or conventional jacketed bullets.
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MartyMan
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 11:00am | IP Logged Quote MartyMan

M700 wrote:
I load 45 ACP with my RCBS die set.

Just seat and taper-crimp with the supplied RCBS seating die, and it works great.


Give it a try? Works really well for me. I've loaded thousands of rounds of 45 on that die set, with no problems. Might go load some more later today, that die set is pretty much permanently set up on my turret press.

Give it a try and see how it goes, without the Lee FCD.

Regards, Guy


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MartyMan
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 11:02am | IP Logged Quote MartyMan

My bad - Berry's 200g jacketed H.P. target bullets.
Yes first post, thanks. Been beating my head against this for weeks now.

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M700
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Posted: January 28 2018 at 12:54pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Well, give it a try with just the RCBS dies. They produce a nice taper crimp.

I've started using Berry's plated bullets the past year or two and they work just fine with the .45 ACP.

Guy
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 03 2018 at 3:21pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

If you use a roll crimp on the .45ACP, it will make a slight bulge right at the point where it rolls over into the bullet, you can get away with that with relatively soft lead bullets, but not with FMJ. If you are using FMJ bullets all the crimp you need is to take off any flare you put on the case to facilitate the bullet going into the case.
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MartyMan
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Posted: February 04 2018 at 8:32am | IP Logged Quote MartyMan

Thanks John. I'm going to try minimal crimp and see what happens.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 04 2018 at 8:48am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

MartyMan

For most semi auto pistols, if the cases are full length reesized there is enough friction on the bullet from the sides of the case to keep the bullets in place with no crimp.
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Kosh75287
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Posted: February 09 2018 at 11:05am | IP Logged Quote Kosh75287

You could also try this:

Take a FIRED, but NOT RESIZED case (might help to bell the case mouth just slightly), put a projectile nose-first into the case mouth, and drop it into the pistol's chamber. If the case head is higher than the barrel hood, try mashing it down with thumb pressure (ONLY!), until it is as level as you can get it with the barrel hood.

Remove the fired case + bullet combination (if it doesn't lift out easily, GENTLY push it out from the front with a cleaning rod), and measure the overall length. The result should be very close to optimal O.A.L. for your pistol.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 09 2018 at 4:10pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Kosh75287

That is a very good idea what I have done in the past is pretty similar, put a bullet in an unsized case, push it into the chamber until flush with the barrel hood, and then see if there are any rifling marks on the nose of the bullet, only works with soft lead bullets.

Your idea uses the base of the bullet which should stop before entering the rifling.

MartyMan

Something else you could try. Take a round that is not chambering properly, run it through the FL sizing die and then check the fit. Most of these problems are traceable back to too much crimp, making a "high spot" on the case..

The .45ACP is pretty easy to load for, and will forgive us for a lot of "sins"..   is a big straight walled case, at normal pressures considerably below what the gun can actually handle. If your cases are not all the same length, it is not an issue. In theory the case head spaces on the mouth of the case, while in fact it works just fine, "headspacing, so to speak" on the extractor.

The .45ACP is is kind of "the undiscovered land", That round has for the most part a lot of unused potential.

You can start off with the 185 gr, standard velocity 185 gr, bullet at velocities pretty similar to the .38 spl. 148 gr. wad cutter target load, and move right up into the .45 Super that will push a 230 grn bullet at over 1100 fps.

The Super conversion requires a new barrel, with more case support, Super brass and a heavier recoil spring.

Hodgdon lists some loads for a 200 grn bullet at over 1100 fps, that are below the pressure range of +P .45ACP ammunition.

There is a lot of hype about the 10mm, it achieves the ballistics it does with higher pressure and lighter bullets.

Supposedly .. from the extensive testing that the FBI did in re evaluating their service side arm, the 9mm is as effective as either the .40 S&W or the .45ACP.

I tend to disagree, I have taken a number of big game animals with the .45ACP, the heavier larger diameter bullet still takes the day, the 9mm relies on high velocity and expanding bullets. Expanding bullets do not always expand, if you start off with a .45 call bullet, I can tell you for a certitude it "ain't getting any smaller".

Probably one of the best hand gun cartridges ever designed was the .45 Colt. The original loading was 40 gr. of black powder under a 255 grn. bullet, that load in the "calvary' Issue 1873 Colt (7.5" barrel) produced just over 1000 fps. and 500+ ft/lbs of energy.

The modern loading with smokeless is closer to 850-900 fps. A load that can be duplicated in the 1911 Colt, with out encroaching too far into the +P realm.

Here is a link to that data, it is in the load data section of Handloads.com. :    .45ACP +P

I have loaded a lot of ammo for "shot glass" cartridge, it has been an adventure, I won't be selling any of my .45ACP to get something newer and better, because there is nothing better.. j

Edited by John Van Gelder on February 09 2018 at 4:12pm
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Tawadc95
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Posted: February 12 2018 at 9:17pm | IP Logged Quote Tawadc95

If you have calipers and SAAMI cartridge specs in your loading manual
you can take the guess work out of things.

Most dies size a case to .004-.006 under bullet diameter (depending on
bullet choices diameter) which is sufficient to firmly hold the bullet at
your seating depth.

I taper crimp my case mouth to .472 which is .001 under SAAMI spec
and passes the plunk test in my barrels just fine.

You can also take measurements from a factory round your gun likes.

A taper crimp of .003 is max for plated and polymer coated bullets so
you don't damage the bullet surface or deform the bullet itself.

Measure bullet diameter, wall thickness of a case x 2 and make a
finished case mouth diameter .002 less.

Bullet diameter- .452
Case wall thickness- .011
Total- .474
Taper diameter- .472 or as needed for proper plunk test

A Lyman Type M die really helps to keep a cast bullet from creating that
troublesome bulge in the case at the base of the seated bullet that
occurs with a standard belling die.

Have fun!
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: February 13 2018 at 7:35am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Another problem one may encounter with too much crimp and relatively soft bullets, is that the crimp can size the bullet down below bore diameter.
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