Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc
General Discussion
 Handloads.Com Forum : General Discussion
Subject Topic: Florida Shooting Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 10:57am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

A friend of mine called me this morning, she wanted to know what I thought about the recent school shooting, beside the one in Florida, their was another in Washington, that doesn't appear to have made the national news.

My thought that these things are a break down in our society. The immediate response to this is for more gun control. It is already quite difficult to purchase firearms, more so than when I was a high school student. Back in the 50 in rural communities, it was not uncommon for kids to have guns in their lockers so they could go hunting right after school.

I have no clear answer, perhaps getting into to school needs to be like getting on an airplane.

Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Rex
Senior Member




Joined: June 01 2004
Location: ;Paxton, Ne.
Posts: 3519
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 11:25am | IP Logged Quote Rex

Perhaps parents need to start being parents. Respect for firearms and almost everything else was taught from a very young age. As soon as you were old enough to touch a gun you started getting instructions on use and attitude. My Irish Dad showed me a time or two why he was considered one of the better local fighters in our small area in his youth.
Back to Top View Rex's Profile Search for other posts by Rex
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 12:10pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Rex

The world has changed drastically since we were young. I can't help but think that young people have been desensitized to violence, because there is so much in movies, TV and video games.

Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 508
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 1:55pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

We've had firearms and schools for a long time and had very few problems with them mixing.

I think it's the change in society that made the problem. People sit in front of their TV's, computers and various other electronic devices much more than they used to and don't know how to socialize anymore. Hollywood and the media has taken control of many of their brains by telling them how they should think, feel and act. Guns are bad unless you are using them to make millions of dollars from a movie that shows the weak minded and impressionable how to kill everyone that messes with you, and how to pose with your guns in photos to make you look powerful and important. Then after someone does shoot up a school, the media moves in and makes them famous by airing their "deeds" for days and weeks into every home in the country. Most of these shooters are mentally ill and paranoid, which is obvious to even think about shooting helpless school children, and they want to have their fifteen minutes of fame. And with the excess of "news sources" trying to get advertising monies, they are glad to sensationalize their stories. It's funny though that if a person uses a firearm to do good, the media doesn't mention them and if there is a movie about it it's politically skewed to the point it's 99.9% fiction.
Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
dahlin
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: January 26 2015
Location: Ogema, WI
Posts: 188
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 2:09pm | IP Logged Quote dahlin

I think that all gun owners need to call their representatives and make your voice heard. The gun grabbers are not silent. Just my 2cents. Randy
Back to Top View dahlin's Profile Search for other posts by dahlin
 
Rex
Senior Member




Joined: June 01 2004
Location: ;Paxton, Ne.
Posts: 3519
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 2:15pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

[QUOTE=John Van Gelder] Rex

The world has changed drastically since we were young. I can't help but think that young people have been desensitized to violence, because there is so much in movies, TV and video games.

John, you are right. As a kid the only picture shows we got to see were Roy Rodgers and Abbott and Costello. Then only if they came on a Saturday that the folks were going to town to do their shopping. Good folks always won.
Back to Top View Rex's Profile Search for other posts by Rex
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 391
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 3:20pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

I concur with the consensus (odd for me). I distinctly remember classmates bringing guns to school when I was in high school. A friend of mine even brought a pistol with him a couple of times. Never once did we have any issues and at no time did anyone ever brandish or threaten another person.

My father grew up in New Jersey and he related to me that there was a shooting range in the basement of his high school. Shooting was a varsity sport at the time. Again, no one every shot or even threatened to shoot anyone else in his time there. Clearly, then, the firearms themselves are not he issue.

If I were to point to a cause, I would say that it is a combination of the decay of social and moral standards in society and the rise of the victim and entitlement mentalities. We do not enforce moral or ethical standards on our young and we are not permitted to judge behavior. Couple that with the mentality that an individual feels that other people are A) to blame for their problems, and B) that they have some inherent right or entitlement to get whatever they want, and you have a society in which the mentally and spiritually weak give in to the base urges and act out; sometimes with great violence.

If we do not teach our children to be strong, then they will be weak. Weak people act as savages in an attempt to feel strong. In effect, then, this is a very simple problem to solve: Raise up a generation shouldered with responsibility, discipline, moral and mental fortitude, and these sorts of things will dwindle and die. It is a strong root which is required to prevent the weeds from choking out the fruitful plant.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 3:45pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

RT58

You have a lot of good points. There are no easy answers, and I fear that we may be headed for the same place as a lot of other countries, where there is either no private ownership of firearms or to own a firearm is extremely difficult.

You are absolutely right, bad news sells more newspapers than good news. If an off duty policeman/citizen uses his firearm to prevent a crime the media makes no mention of it. The incidents in Florida and the earlier one in Las Vegas, bet national coverage.

Rex

Back when we were young, our heroes were folks like Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Tom Mix and the Lone Ranger. There were gun fights, but no one really got hurt the good guys just shot the gun out of the hand of the bad guys.

I taught hunter education for 20 years. I remember my first hunter education class when I was a kid. It was held in the indoor shooting range at my school.

I wish there was an easy answer, but their is not.

The best is from Rex .. "Perhaps parents need to start being parents"..!





Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: February 18 2018 at 3:50pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

KinleyWater

Also very good points.
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Yeti
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: September 23 2005
Posts: 1404
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 04 2018 at 9:48am | IP Logged Quote Yeti

The question of what has changed to make these events more
common is a tough one. Answers include:
Parenting, or lack ther of.
Genetics, more people with more screws loose.
Health care, lack of acces to quality care and a dependence on
chemical solutions.
Society, Hollywood making millions off of violent movies.
Gamers learning that mass killing is just another day.
Access, guns can be purchased easily through illegal channels and
more difficult through legal channels.
Lack of enforceability of current laws, the fbi had multiple warnings
about this shooter and the nightclub shooter yet?

The only solid answer is a person who is going to do this sort of act will
do it with or without guns. They will always find a way. We can only
hope to stop them once they start.

__________________
Hunt Deep, Hunt Often
Back to Top View Yeti's Profile Search for other posts by Yeti
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 05 2018 at 7:21am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Here are a couple of links.. The first is about a school in New Mexico that is arming their teachers and providing training for the students and faculty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4_ogsh0Po

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a18698737/what-veteran s-say-about-arming-teachers/
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 391
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 05 2018 at 7:36am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

John Van Gelder wrote:
Here are a couple of links.. The first is about a school in New Mexico that is arming their teachers and providing training for the students and faculty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK4_ogsh0Po

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a18698737/what-veteran s-say-about-arming-teachers/


John,

I lived in Utah for a while. In that state, anyone can carry a firearm in/ at a school with a carry permit. Schools don't arm the teachers, per se, but there are many armed teachers - and janitors, bus drivers, secretaries, nurses, and parents. There are also school resource officers.

Still, the issue comes down to arresting the slide of our society into decadence.

r/

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 06 2018 at 6:05am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

KinleyWater

As a student of history, I believe that societies tend to decline when they no longer have any frontiers.

That may be changing soon..
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
hdwhit
Member




Joined: November 19 2017
Location: Frisco
Posts: 47
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 10 2018 at 1:17am | IP Logged Quote hdwhit

John Van Gelder wrote:
"I can't help but think that young people have been desensitized to violence, because there is so much in movies, TV and video games...."

Right. Like we weren't desensitized to violence by watching Popeye eat spinach and beat up his adversaries; or watching Daffy Duck only suffer superficial injuries after being shot, or Wyle E. Coyote falling off a cliff in pursuit of the Roadrunner and appearing - right after the commercial break - as fit as ever.

No. Young people have been desensitized to violence because their parents and grandparents were first desensitized to it.
Back to Top View hdwhit's Profile Search for other posts by hdwhit
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 10 2018 at 6:41am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

hdwhit

The things we watched when we were young were obviously harmless in nature, not like all of the blood and gore we see in movies and games these days.
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 391
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 10 2018 at 6:56am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Strange - I don't recall reading about anyone in the 40's or 50's blowing up their friends with dynamite.

hdwhit, I see where you are coming from, but I can't agree. During the Civil War, it was not uncommon for civilians to go out and watch battles occur. That was real no-kidding, not pretend violence.

Still, absorption of self with the preponderance of role-playing video games, where violence is a central theme, does not doubt contribute.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4267
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 10 2018 at 7:07am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

John Van Gelder wrote:
KinleyWater

As a student of history, I believe that societies tend to decline when they no longer have any frontiers.

That may be changing soon..


That, sir, is a very deep quote and though I never thought of it before, I believe you are spot on now that I think about it. Something about the need to explore and expand and its effect on the human condition.

If there is a bright side to the Florida shooting (and there really isn't), it is the fact that at least some of the kids took heroic and selfless action which saved lives. I have always wondered why in so many cases, kids just sat there and waited to be killed.

I teach junior ROTC for a living. Have been for almost six years now and had a son do four years of it in high school before that. Contrary to popular thought, the program isn't a recruiting arm of the Army, but a leadership and citizenship course. Three of their cadets died trying to save other kids. All of America's youth is not going down the drain like we older guys tend to think.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 1770
Online Status: Offline
Posted: March 10 2018 at 9:20am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

richhodg66

You are to be commended for your efforts..

I do not think that more gun legislation is going to make a difference. But educating school kids in what to do in these sort of situations, will as you pointed out save lives.

Back when we had a real space program, that acted as a unifying force, everyone was excited about the moon landings and anything to do with space, (The Final Frontier).. I can remember listening to President Kennedy's speech about going to the moon and off to the rest of the solar system, those were pretty interesting times.

I think that Elon Musk will rekindle that fire, and give us all a goal.
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version
Copyright ©2001-2008 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.1094 seconds.