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res45
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 7:18am | IP Logged Quote res45

About a year ago I finally ended up getting a nice Mosin
91/30 from my brother who has several he had purchased
for $100 each some years ago and
stuck back in his closet, he sold it to me for the
original price tag still attached to the gun. It was in
pretty decent shape but the finish on
the stock was starting to peel and I always wanted one
of the blonde Mosin, so I refinished it and did some
accuracy improvement using cork
bedding.



Also, last year although I had a couple Lee molds that
shoot very well in 160 and 185 gr. they both were too
short to fill the deep throat on the
1933 Tula, so I had Tom over at Accurate molds cut me a
mold that was in his catalog to my specs that would fit
my rifle better. It's a 215 gr.
.314" gas check bullet that sits just off the leads when
crimp in the provided crimp groove.

I was able to get out for a couple hours with some loads
I had worked up no serious fact finding mission just
where the loads were headed
accuracy wise with my new 215 gr. FN bullet. Well it
looks like I hit a good node with the 34.0 grs. Of H-
4895 I'm using. I will load up another
batch of the 34.0 gr. loads, so I can run them over the
chrono as well as a couple more loads with 35.0 and 36.0
grs. Loads I want to try as I
have quite a bit of room to move up as long as the
accuracy holds out.

Here is the 5 shot test load I shot over at my buddies
house off some sand bags in his back yard range, the
first test load with 33.0 grs.
Measured about 1.250" an dropped down to .750" with 34.0
grs. Hopefully it want be so long this time before I can
get back out and do more
testing.


Edited by res45 on March 10 2018 at 7:20am


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richhodg66
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 7:34am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

It's been a while since I worked with mine and I've learned a lot about casting since then, but mine really liked the old Ideal 311284 designed for the Krag and .30-06. I shot them unsized, which was probably .314 or so.

I have used IMR 4895 quite a bit in cast applications and it is good stuff. Been working with the newer 5744 lately. They aren't making it anymore, but SR 4759 is great for this kind of work too.

Looks like you have it figured out. Without checking against load data, I'm guessing those are somewhere in the 1800 FPS range??? Good place to be. That's a nice group, those long barrels and sight radius sure are easier for me to shoot than most open sighted rifles.



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res45
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 8:14am | IP Logged Quote res45

I choose H 4895 because I can start at 60% from known
load data using jacketed bullet data with a similar
weight bullet which is around 41.0 grs.

Some previous loads using 32.0 grs. although they shot
well were not getting good neck seal so when I finally
got my bullets cast from the Accurate mold I loaded up 5
rds. each of 33.0 and 34.0 grs. H4895 and with the
heavier bullet I got good neck seal, no primer
flattening of any kind and good accuracy.

I had a gentleman on another forum that told me the same
thing as to the velocity, I'm guessing he probably ran
my numbers through Quick Loads. I will find out for
myself next time around when I run the identical load
through my chrono but I plan to push it up a couple
notches to see just how much velocity / accuracy I can
get out of this combination. I want be doing any long
range shooting with this combination, the bullet is not
really designed for that but more as a hunting bullet.

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richhodg66
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 9:57am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

That exact load you have right there will flatten Bambi fast from any angle you hit from at any realistic range assuming your alloy is soft enough to expand.

I don't know if you've deer hunted with "small bore" cast or not, but I've been doing it for nine years now and can assure you, they will do the job just fine.

What alloy are those, by the way?

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res45
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 10:40am | IP Logged Quote res45

Those bullets were from water quench WW's plus about 2%
Tin, but I'm pretty confident I can use plain old WW's air
cooled or even 50/50 with a gas check and clear powder
coat with the 34 gr. load an not have a problem.

I will test some loads with those cast bullets as well
before I take any to the field. Around here 100 yds. is a
long shot most time it's even less than that.

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richhodg66
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 10:59am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

When I started getting into the cast hunting, I killed my first one with an old Ideal 31141 cast of air cooled wheel weights and 2% tin in a .30-30, loaded with 25 grains of the old B West 36 which was equal to IMR 3031. Result was a very dead deer very fast, but it was also real close (I could have spit on her just about) and I also found a sliver of the bullet in the channel it made through the heart which led me to believe the bullet fractured somewhat. Malleability is your friend.

I went back to the drawing board and asked some experts. The advice I was given for deer hunting with cast is to use .30 caliber or bigger, relatively heavy bullet for caliber with a flat nose shape, cast them of 50/50 wheel weights to pure with 2% of the wheel weights in tin and then push them between 1800-2000 FPS. That advice has panned out real well for me now and I have yet to recover a bullet, in several .30s, a couple of .35s and a .32 Winchester Special. Your load here meets all those requirements except you may want to try a little softer alloy, though with a meplat like that one, you'd probably be OK with a harder alloy if that's what it takes to get the accuracy you need.

That 50/50 + 25 tin works well, but you won't be able to shoot long strings of them without cleaning and still get good accuracy. What you can do is water quench most of them when you cast, and keep a few air cooled for hunting. They'll all hit to the same point of aim and you'll be able to practice with the hard ones.

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res45
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 2:59pm | IP Logged Quote res45

Thanks for all the great info an personal experiance,
the 50/50 alloy bullet with a decent meplat was along my
line of thinking as well and what I really like to use
for hunting.

I also have coming a 4 cavity Ranch Dog clone of his
original 30-30 bullet in two gas check and two plain
base bullets that I plan on using in my Sav. 170 as
well, but that another post down the road. I'll make
sure to post my test results from the soft an harder
alloy bullets as well as the traditional lubed and
powder coated bullets when I get back over to my buddies
house in a couple weeks weather permitting.

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RECURVE
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 4:29pm | IP Logged Quote RECURVE

Good shootin guns I got one that was never issued a 91 30
great lead shooter. I like 10gr unique for plinking
loads
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res45
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 5:18pm | IP Logged Quote res45

RECURVE wrote:
Good shootin guns I got one that was
never issued a 91 30
great lead shooter. I like 10gr unique for plinking
loads


I have some Unique and a few other powders unopened that I
don't use on a regular basis. They are more of a rainy day
stash in case times get tough as they will work in a
variety or rifle and handgun cast bullet loads.

I probably should pick up another lb. of Unique as it will
work in everything I shoot.

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richhodg66
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Posted: March 10 2018 at 7:27pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

res45 wrote:
Thanks for all the great info an personal experiance,
the 50/50 alloy bullet with a decent meplat was along my
line of thinking as well and what I really like to use
for hunting.

I also have coming a 4 cavity Ranch Dog clone of his
original 30-30 bullet in two gas check and two plain
base bullets that I plan on using in my Sav. 170 as
well, but that another post down the road. I'll make
sure to post my test results from the soft an harder
alloy bullets as well as the traditional lubed and
powder coated bullets when I get back over to my buddies
house in a couple weeks weather permitting.


I bought a six cavity original from Ranchdog while he was still in business. I've only killed one deer with it, nice buck back in 2012 using a Savage 99 in .308, but that bullet works well in a lot of things. I was recently shooting it through a commercial Mauser I'm playing with using 12 grains of old Alcan 120 which burns like Red Dot and it shot very well. It was also a good bullet in .300 Savage.

I had a Savage 170 for a while, mine had the problem of the slide not unlocking after firing, common on the 170s. It was very accurate though, shot cast extremely well.

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turbo1889
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Posted: March 11 2018 at 4:47am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

If you can get your hands on some of the
cheap 50-BMG surplus powder I have found
that a full case compressed load of it
does wonders for me in my cast boolit
loads for my Mosin. Using such a load I
was able to push some plain base loads up
to respectable rifle velocities and hold
hunting accuracy to 300-yards. Which I
found quite successful for a plain base
with no gas check.

Although your loads look impressive as
well especially for iron sights your
spending extra per load on more costly
powder and gas checks.

But then you might not be as much of a
cheap skate as I am.

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res45
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Posted: March 11 2018 at 5:28am | IP Logged Quote res45

turbo1889 wrote:
If you can get your hands on some of
the
cheap 50-BMG surplus powder I have found
that a full case compressed load of it
does wonders for me in my cast boolit
loads for my Mosin. Using such a load I
was able to push some plain base loads up
to respectable rifle velocities and hold
hunting accuracy to 300-yards. Which I
found quite successful for a plain base
with no gas check.

Although your loads look impressive as
well especially for iron sights your
spending extra per load on more costly
powder and gas checks.

But then you might not be as much of a
cheap skate as I am.


Thanks for the info, nobody around here carries the 50
BMG powder I could probably find some at
one of the gun shows but I tend to shy away form those
as I find prices are usually higher than
normal and I don't like paying hazmat fees either.

As far as gas checks I get Gator checks for Sage
Outdoors. I can get 1500 of the copper checks
shipped for less that what retailer sell 1K of the
Hornady checks without shipping included and
I don't shoot enough to make using checks all that
expensive. I save money by using all that
free lead I've collected for many years as well as
getting good deals on brass. Not going into
all the details of the transactions but after selling
off everything I couldn't use from a large
multi caliber NEW PPU brass purchase I ended up paying
$30 out of pocket for all this.



Edited by res45 on March 11 2018 at 5:29am


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richhodg66
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Posted: March 11 2018 at 6:55am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

When I first started with Mosins in the early '90s the brass was harder to find. I shot the Hansen ammo, which I believe is the same as PPU, to get brass and it is good stuff. Now I have a fair stash because all the makers use it. Cast is the way to go in the oversized .30s in milsurps.

I'd be interested in hearing more about the very slow powders. I have quite a bit of (I think) AA8700 which I was told was 20mm cannon powder, I got for use in my 7mm Mag with heavy jacketed loads. Haven't done that for a very long time now. Oddly, My dad used the stuff in cast loads in the .45-70 which he said gave good accuracy but was dirty as all get out. MAybe I need to look harder at that stuff for use in things I'm actually shooting now.

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res45
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Posted: March 11 2018 at 7:29am | IP Logged Quote res45

Of my rifle powders H-335, Reloader #15 and IMR or H
4895 are the slowest I use.

I choose H-4895 because it could be downloaded to 60%
for the listed data safely and used with jacketed or
cast lead bullets. It's more useful to me though with
cast lead as I can work the load up slowly in 1 or .05
gr. increments till I find the sweet spot.

I like two kinds of powders with cast lead ones that use
low charge weights for economical general purpose
shooting that don't require a filler and are accurate
and clean burning like Red Dot or Alliant 2400 or Unique
or a slower burning powder that gives good case fill or
can be safely reduced without using a filler but still
give good upper end velocity.

There are probably several other powders that will fill
that bill easily but I can get H-4895 very easy locally
and it seem to be working out very well.

Edited by res45 on March 11 2018 at 11:44am


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turbo1889
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Posted: March 11 2018 at 11:50am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I paid $49.99 per 8-lb jug for my 50-bmg
surplus powder the last time I bought some
and have paid as low as just over $30 a
jug if we go back a couple decades or so.

That works out to $6.25 per pound, the
only reason you can get it that cheap is
because it is surplus and so slow burning
most reloaders don't have a huge use for
it. But most full power and magnum rifle
cartridges can use it with cast boolits.
For some unknown reason though the
7.62x54R cartridge in my Mosin rifle seems
to do exceptionally well with this setup,
better then any of my other rifles in
different cartridges.

Edited by turbo1889 on March 11 2018 at 11:58am


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richhodg66
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Posted: March 11 2018 at 7:41pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

Now I have to start messing with that real slow burning stuff again. One thing about it, when loading in 7mm Magnum, you basically can't fit enough in the case to overload it. Compressed loads with heavy bullets showed no primer flattening or any other signs of pressure.

I did try some in a .30-06 with heavy cast bullets. Didn't work with it a lot, accuracy was OK, but not great. I think I'll have to try it some more, seems my latest Lee manual had data for a lot of things in it.

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Posted: March 11 2018 at 8:23pm | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Jeff Bartlett has good prices on the 50 BMG powder.

Surplus Powders

Edited by Ham Gunner on March 11 2018 at 8:23pm


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: March 13 2018 at 6:49am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

res45

Those old guns are real shooters, that target you "printed" is pretty impressive. Well done.

A friend of mine is military "stuff" collector, he went to a gun show a number of years ago and came away with several of the Mosin–Nagant.

I am fairly sure he has never shot any of them.

Now if you can just find an old Russian sniper scope to put on it..
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res45
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Posted: March 13 2018 at 3:46pm | IP Logged Quote res45

John Van Gelder wrote:
res45

Those old guns are real shooters, that target you
"printed" is pretty impressive. Well done.

A friend of mine is military "stuff" collector, he went
to a gun show a number of years ago and came away with
several of the Mosin–Nagant.

I am fairly sure he has never shot any of them.

Now if you can just find an old Russian sniper scope to
put on it..


I've though about that but even a reproduction and mount
plus the cost of having the receiver drilled and tapped
would be around $500.

I did end up putting a MOJO rear peep sight on the rifle
that I shot that group with and for around here anything
100 yds. or closer is about your average shooting
distance for most hunting situations.

One thing I may do but I'm still thinking it over is
putting a turned down bolt on the rifle. I have a 1945
M44 that shoots as well with cast lead as the 91/30
which still has the straight bolt, so I'm kinda used to
the straight bolt, but it wears an S & K scout mount and
a 3 x 7 x 32 LER scope and it's held zero for years but
honestly I think I would be better off putting a Red Dot
sight on it to give me a larger field of view.   

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