Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc
Cast Bullets
 Handloads.Com Forum : Cast Bullets
Subject Topic: Ideal 454190 mould acquired Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Paul B.
Senior Member




Joined: March 12 2002
Posts: 2496
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 14 2018 at 12:53pm | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

Very interesting. Frankly, if there's a thunderstorm booming and banging
and flashing and crashing I can't sleep I have to get up, go outside and
watch the show.

On adding a minute amount of copper to your allow, methinks a simpler
way might be to get 95/5 Percent lead free solder. I know of two types,
on with 95 percent tin and 5 percent silver which is the one I use. Hey,
the Lone Ranger ain't got nothing on me. The other type is 95 percent tin
and 5 percent copper. I have not used it but I think it would be an easier
way to add what copper you wanted to the alloy and little or no waiting..
It's also a nice way to add a slight amout of tin to sweeten the pot.
Paul B.
Back to Top View Paul B.'s Profile Search for other posts by Paul B.
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 14 2018 at 2:03pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Holy Hopping Hector's Hemorrhoids!
I'm after 20:1 or at best 16:1 lead to tin mixture. I
want soft soft workable old school stuff! I'm fighting to
keep impurities and exotic stuff out of my barrels! Aye
yi yi! .........

By the by, found that Lowe's sells pure lead. How 'bout
dat!?? I'll be off acting like a home improvement
chap in no time.... Well, after pay call anyway. Got VA
business that involves driving a ways and eating up coin
in the next week... But I will snag me some strait lead.
I'll make it work.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 14 2018 at 2:05pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

And as far as thunderstorms, I love 'em, but I can sleep
through a rocket attack on a firebase if I'm tuckered.
Actually, done that more than once.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
turbo1889
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 08 2006
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 1685
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 14 2018 at 4:41pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Old Ranger wrote:
Holy Hopping Hector's
Hemorrhoids!
I'm after 20:1 or at best 16:1 lead to tin
mixture. I
want soft soft workable old school stuff!
I'm fighting to
keep impurities and exotic stuff out of my
barrels! Aye
yi yi! .........

By the by, found that Lowe's sells pure
lead. How 'bout
dat!?? I'll be off acting like a home
improvement
chap in no time.... Well, after pay call
anyway. Got VA
business that involves driving a ways and
eating up coin
in the next week... But I will snag me
some strait lead.
I'll make it work.


Old Ranger, I think he was talking to me
after I explained that a small amount of
copper in and of itself won't spoil lead
alloy and that sometimes I put it in
deliberately for certain purposes.

On your situation specifically I totally
agree that hard alloy is not always the
best option. After a lot of trial and
error I have personally come to the
conclusion that each load has an ideal
alloy, either a harder or softer alloy
then what is ideal for a particular load
can cause problems.

You are totally correct that too hard of
alloy on a lower pressure & lower velocity
load will cause problems and going soft
will usually help rather then hurt.
Unless one needs the hard alloy not for
the load but what the load needs to do to
the target for which a handful of loads
even if they lead it's acceptable since
what is being shot needs the be penetrated
the way only a hard cast solid can.

Just got a little carried away explaining
that a little copper in the alloy isn't a
bad thing necessarily. You could also
have some bitsmuth mixed in which I have
heard will melt into lead but will not
play nice, not as bad as zinc but still
two metals I have been told but have not
personally experienced don't play nice
with each other.

Bitsmuth contamination would most likely
result from melting down salvaged or
recovered shotgun shot since that is about
the only thing bitsmuth is used for.

Edited by turbo1889 on April 14 2018 at 4:44pm


__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
Back to Top View turbo1889's Profile Search for other posts by turbo1889
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 14 2018 at 5:35pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

That's ok. This thread isn't about a bullet designed in
the 1880s anymore, as like most it's spun off into a
whole other topic.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 16 2018 at 9:52am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I was going to update my work on the 454190 with clean
lead but I figured why bother. Just an old bullet that
just interests an old man. Nuthin' fancy.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
USA Joe
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: October 29 2005
Location: Tucson Az
Posts: 1297
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 16 2018 at 10:23am | IP Logged Quote USA Joe

Ok. Wade lets have the rest of the story    Joe

__________________
Joe
Back to Top View USA Joe's Profile Search for other posts by USA Joe
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 16 2018 at 11:44am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Wade

Wrong answer.. We are reloaders and in most cases bullet casters or we would not be here. I do not know about every one else, but I am always interested in someones reloading experiences, good, bad or Ugly always something to be learned, or shared with some one who is having difficulties..

So having said that..how did it go..j
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 16 2018 at 12:20pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Ok....

After getting rid of nasty lead I managed to chop & chip
some good stuff of the plate outside. Sized with a 310
chamber [.452"] and lubes with paste wax. 7.5gr Unique
and shot 15m with the Colt open top. Nice classic 45 bark
to it. If I ever get my skills back [damn stroke! ]
I would shoot better, but still put 'em on a 9" plate.
All over it, but all on it.
No lead. Nada! Bore looked polished and brite after 20
rounds. I should have tested in the 7 1/2" as it's got
better sights and supurb trigger, but I'm trying to
master this open top. With it, barn doors are safe at
50m! Who am I kidding? 25m and they're never hit!

Bottom line; the old Ideal 454190 has the ability and
accuracy. A ballistic coefficient rate of .270 and lots
of area for the lands to bite into. Clean lead was the
ticket. Unique punches more than Trail Boss and not
position sensitive like Universal. But TB is über clean.
I don't know. But at least that stain's gone. That was
weird.
Maybe uncle Leo was right. Smokeless is some sort of
strange stuff that's got no business in a Colt 45!
I do know hard as a rock alloy sure don't!

Goin' out now to shoot the 7 1/2" SAA. 72°F and full sun
with light wind.
Them thar barn doors better duck!

Edit: shot a tighter group but nearly everything high &
left. With 250gr the 7 1/2" hits high anyway so I'm
shooting left as usual. Now if those barn doors are in my
sights, they're safe if they're right of where I'm
aiming!

However, weapon's bore was spotless. At least I did that
right this time. Love single actions. Just can't shoot
'em worth a damn..

Edited by Old Ranger on April 16 2018 at 4:14pm


__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 17 2018 at 5:12am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Wade sometimes a bit more finger through the trigger guard will cure left shooting.

Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 17 2018 at 8:56am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

John, I've tried everything imaginable and I still shoot
left. Its not the weapon, its me. Just when I think I got
it right [correct] poof! It all goes left and often low
left. I'm cursed...
So I quit trying. I'm now training 100% hip shooting with
my single actions. No more paper targets. Only cans and
stuff scattered about. Just stare at the targets and
shoot without looking at the weapon. Like shooting a
recurve or longbow.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 17 2018 at 1:17pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Wade

That always worked for Matt Dillon... :)
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 17 2018 at 5:33pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Worked for my great uncle Leo too. And with a triggerless
slipgun too!

Earlier today I went to my main range and tossed a dozen
coke cans out on the ground. I had a box of 250gr Lee's
and Universal loads. The Colts open top in the holster.
Opened fire at five paces [7m ?] And shot with one hand
from a low hold a little in front of my body. I don't
care for powder burns, fouling debris, and concussion
that close to me.

Had more hits than misses and many cans flying! There
wasn't a can without many holes in it. I do believe I've
found the best way to shoot this 5 1/2" single action and
be void of frustration with this natural pointing pistol.
It was the most fun I've had since divorcing my 3rd wife!


Edited by Old Ranger on April 17 2018 at 5:34pm


__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 18 2018 at 6:34am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

One of the 1858 Remingtons I have belongs to my youngest son. I gave it to him back when he was 13. The point here is I used to have a video of him shooting one hand from the hip, walking a tin can all over a gravel pit.

For ranges under 25 yards, instinctive shooting is pretty effective. With some practice you may be able to double that distance and stay on a 12 X 18" plate.

I have watched videos done by Bob Munden and he is just a phenomenal shot.   
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 18 2018 at 7:13am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

I need to cast more 190's as they're real accurate like
the Lee 255's are. Just that the 190 is the original bad
boy of the 45 Colt, uncle Leo's bullet as well, and the
first bullet I ever cast and loaded. Again, it's a
nostalgia thing for me as it is practical.

Hip shooting and point shooting was practically an
everyday training for me as a peace officer. When not at
the range I was in my garage with Speer plastic bullets,
a B27 target tacked to the studs, and a piece of
carpeting behind the target. I literally trained nearly
everyday when I was in patrol div and the mounted unit.
In those days I could draw and shoot in a blink of an eye
and drill x's & 10's out to 15'or 20'. But that training
slowed down when I became a detective and stopped due to
longer hours on the job. My skills have deteriorated
considerably since then. Thankfully the muscle memory is
still available, just dormant I believe. This 5 1/2" Colt
has wonderful balance and remarkable pointing abilities.
It's a natural for this kind of shooting. I believe with
some serious practice, I can get back some of that skill.
Maybe.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
LAH
Senior Member




Joined: March 07 2002
Location: In The Hardwoods
Posts: 3981
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 19 2018 at 7:53pm | IP Logged Quote LAH

Wade that 190 bullet is a great slug. Without a doubt one
of the best for the 45. 20-1 is proper alloy for the old
Colt. I use half wheelweights & half lead. Don't care for
that much antimony but it's a cheap mix & I have plenty.


__________________
Joshua 1:9
Back to Top View LAH's Profile Search for other posts by LAH
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 20 2018 at 5:15am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Yes sir, the old 190 is a classic. And this old Ideal
mould is dead perfect for casting it. The Lee's has that
tablet top flat nose and a crimping groove too and
wonderfully accurate, but the 'ole Colt 45 bullet I grew
up with. Like I said, it's a nostalgia thing as much as
anything else.

And 20:1 is just fine for my needs. Short on funds this
month, but next month I'm getting several pounds of it
from RotoMetals for serious work. I've managed to chop
off some of the old xray plate with a hatchet driven by a
3# crosspeen hammer. Its slow going, tiring, and
dangerous. My hands no longer have the strength I once
had in them and the vibration from impact soon numb them
and I begin to loose grip and some strikes are wrong. I
need a better way to cut 1" thick lead, but I just don't
have it. Besides, proper certified 20:1 would be better.


__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
John Van Gelder
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 09 2004
Location: NE Oregon
Posts: 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 20 2018 at 7:14am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

That bullet design was popular because it loaded so nicely through the loading gate of a SAA Colt. It would have worked well in a Winchester back in those days, if Winchester had ever offered their lever guns in that caliber. The lever guns in .45 Colt are a modern product of Cowboy Action shooting.
Back to Top View John Van Gelder's Profile Search for other posts by John Van Gelder
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3754
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 20 2018 at 2:01pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

That's an easy one. When designing the Colt Single Action
Army, it was dimensionally identical to the 1860 Colt
Army black powder framed revolver. Thus the chambers were
large For the 45 Colt cartridge, but the cylinder was
somewhat small. Compromises were made and the rim
diameter was reduced as compared to other cartridges of
the era. cases were softer a hundred plus years ago and
had a higher copper content. thus they didn't make use of
the 45 Colt case in a lever gun because the rim kept
getting ripped apart. Also the balloon head cartridges
made it even worse. today we have stronger brass and a 45
Colt cartridge is not that difficult to chamber in a
lever action anymore.

__________________
"I am not politically correct. I don't apologise for being American. I stand by my country and have no use for anyone who does not."

The Old Ranger
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
Ranch 13
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: March 13 2003
Location: =
Posts: 8179
Online Status: Offline
Posted: April 20 2018 at 2:06pm | IP Logged Quote Ranch 13

Buffalo Arms 20-1 alloy is a buck a pound cheaper than rotometals


__________________
The most expensive bullet there is isn't worth a plug nickel if it doesn't go where its supposed to.
GUSA #6
http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php
Back to Top View Ranch 13's Profile Search for other posts by Ranch 13 Visit Ranch 13's Homepage
 

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc

<< Prev Page of 3 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version
Copyright ©2001-2008 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.2344 seconds.