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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 3:45pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

rich

I do not know why those alloy pellets would not work.

Back when I had a contender, one of the barrels was .222. I designated a couple of .222 cases drilled out the flash holes leaving just enough shoulder to seat a primer/anvil on. With magnum rifle primers and a .22 pellet I could kill red squirrels at 50 feet or less, it did require some stalking, sure was quiet. Head shots on spruce grouse worked as well. Not enough "oomph" for rabbits.

I think your 2 gr. of BE may be pretty fast. I chronographed some of my ultra light .222 loads. Using a 55 grn cast bullet over 1.5 gr. of Hogdons Clays, (similar burn rate to BE) I got 850 fps. That was in the 600 Remington, I got out of the contender thing when I left Alaska.

More than adequate for any small game, and again really quiet.

Edited by John Van Gelder on May 06 2018 at 3:46pm
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 3:55pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

rich

Now you did it.. You have thinking that perhaps a couple of grains of Clays and a pellet might make a nice plinking load of the .222.

Now if I can just find the 9v battery for my chronograph...!

I am estimation just over 1000 fps. More than that and skirted pellets loose stability.
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 4:07pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Something else that we have not touched on in this thread.

If you have a spring gun you can significantly increase the velocity by adding a drop of oil to the skirt of the pellet after loading. This is dieseling, and it does increase the effectiveness of a spring pellet gun. However it comes at a price seals and spring wear out quicker. And where applicable falls under the same restrictions as any other "firearm"..!

A fellow on You Tube did some pretty comprehensive testing and produced a useful data base.

Air Gun Dieseling 1

Air Gun Dieseling 2

You have to let your conscience be your guide on this one do the advantages out weight the risk of damage to your gun. Your local Walmart has some good deals on spring guns and they are nearly throw away items, so why not ..?
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turbo1889
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 4:19pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I've tried dieseling, and at shorter ranges it works
fine. BUT, I found that at longer ranges it can result
in significant vertical stringing due to a larger
variance in muzzle velocity which can result in missed
shots, but then again not everyone tries to make shots
with a springer that I do either, so to each their own.

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Pete D.
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 6:23pm | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

About 4500 psi....
I have been using PCP airguns since about the time that they started
showing up on the market. Who would not want a airgun that shoots
the same bullets as their 1911?
I have a Sam Yang Big Bore (and a number of other lesser calibered
guns from Benjamin, to Feinwerkbau, to Hammerli.)These guns run at
3000psi. Over the years i have acquired a couple of 4500 psi carbon
fiber tanks, a 4500 psi hand pump, a 4500 psi compressor.
The only one of these that is almost practical for loading an airgun
cylinder to 4500 psi is the hand pump.
I say “almost practical” because the very HP guns get 2-3 shots and
then need to be pressurized again. Are you going to carry a hand pump
around? You are not going tp carry a compressor. A 4500 psi tank will
not pressurize to 4500 psi....close maybe on the first try but never the
whole thing. (A pressure tank filling an air reservoir will only pressurize
to equal pressure in the main tank and the gun tank.) As soon as you
start to fill the gun tank, the pressure in the main tank drops. You
never get the full deal. The second and succeeding fills all start at less
than 4.5 kpsi. The 4.5s are great for filling 3kpsi to 3.7kpsi.

What is needed is a 5kpsi+ air source.


Quote:

Back when I had a contender, one of the barrels was .222. I designated
a couple of .222 cases drilled out the flash holes leaving just enough
shoulder to seat a primer/anvil on. With magnum rifle primers and a .22
pellet I could kill red squirrels at 50 feet or less, it did require some
stalking, sure was quiet. Head shots on spruce grouse worked as well.
Not enough "oomph" for rabbits

More oomph...drill out the primer pocket completely with 17/64th
drill....big enough to seat a 209 shotshell primer. You need to bevel the
edge to accommodate the 209 flange.
Pete

Edited by Pete D. on May 06 2018 at 6:33pm


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turbo1889
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 9:58pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

@ Pete D.

The one guy I know face to face who uses a
big bore airgun has a Texan 357 with the
4,500-psi upgrade kit.

He mainly shoots coyotes with his, he goes
into the field with the tank on the gun
and two spare tanks in his pack all full
toped off. He gets three good shots using
his preferred heavier weight bullet on
each tank, and after three shots on the
third tank he backs the power adjuster way
off to a pre-determined setting so the
heavier 4,500-psi striker spring won't
overwhelm the partially depleated tank and
switches to a lighter weight bullet and
gets three more shots on each tank before
he is all out. The second string on his
tanks with the lighter projectile with the
power adjustment backed off is close
enough trajectory for him to still make
hits without adjusting his scope he says
but they don't hit near as hard as the
first string because of the lighter weight
bullets used for the second string.

He says the upgrade to 4,500-psi gave him
the ability to do a second string on each
tank, previously he only got three good
full power shots on each tank with maybe a
fourth shot that he either had to swap in
a very light bullet or would hit way low.

Sounds to me like you are taking a reserve
tank into the field in your pack and using
it to refill your gun where he is just
swapping out tanks on the gun itself.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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turbo1889
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Posted: May 06 2018 at 10:13pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

As to propelling bullets with just a
primer. Fed-209A shotgun primers are the
most commonly available option that will
give you the most punch. Fed-229 primers
are even better but very difficult to find
as reloading components. They are used on
Federal 10ga. factory loads and if you buy
new primed Federal brand 10ga. hulls they
are what come in the hulls and you can
carefully punch them back out and sub in
Fed-209A for loading the shotgun hulls
(will match most published load data
better anyway) and use the Fed-229 primers
for making the most powerful primer only
propelled loads possible with the possible
exception of using primers from industrial
8ga. loads.

Reason I know is that I used to have a
177-cal primer gun my Great Uncle made for
me when I was a teenager, put a BB or a
pellet in first, then a 209 shotgun primer
(229 fit as well) then close the little
bolt and fire. Not sure what the
velocities generated we're because I
didn't have a Chrono back then but it had
a crack to it and would punch through some
thick stuff. How I measured power
differences back then between primers used
is which would punch the projectile
through greater thicknesses of the same
target medium.

No, I wasn't the one buying primed Federal
10ga. hulls back then. That was my Great
Uncle as well.

Edited by turbo1889 on May 06 2018 at 10:16pm


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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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Pete D.
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Posted: May 07 2018 at 2:51am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Quote:
Sounds to me like you are taking a reserve
tank into the field in your pack and using
it to refill your gun where he is just
swapping out tanks on the gun itself.


Nope. I live in PA. Hunting with airguns is illegal
The charging and carryin of extra cylinders is quite clever and about the
only convenient way to keep power at the level that you describe.

I would like to know more about that upgrade kit.
Pete

Edited by Pete D. on May 07 2018 at 2:58am


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 07 2018 at 5:52am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

The shot gum primer thing is too expensive a couple grains of shot gun powder is more affordable.

The .45-50 cal PCP air guns just seemed like too much work for not much return.

The .177 and .22s fill a niche for small game hunting and are relatively easy to fill with a hand pump.
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M700
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Posted: May 07 2018 at 9:15am | IP Logged Quote M700

I too remember thinking, during the Great Obama Ammo Shortage, that I really ought to get a new air rifle & pistol.

Then 22 prices came down, handloading components became readily available again...

And I forgot all about getting a new air rifle. Was just visiting my brother-in-law and he was showing me a very cool air rifle he's using to control varmints on his suburban property. It's almost silent, really accurate. He's got it scoped and it uses one of those little pressurized air cylinders. I think he's got about $900 into it, and he thinks it's just perfect for his use.

Not sure I want to get that fancy, but ya, a good air rifle & air pistol would assure a fellow of a great, economical way to practice, and even doing some hunting.

Hmmm. Time to take a harder look at the air guns avail.

Guy
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Ham Gunner
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Posted: May 07 2018 at 9:53am | IP Logged Quote Ham Gunner

Years back, I had squirrels eating up most of my tomatoes even before they were near ripe. I have a bird feeder on the railing of my deck which I fixed up with a small electric fence charger because it too was a great squirrel attractant. Now, when the squirrels stand on a grounded piece of weld wire on the deck rail and reach up to grab the electrified feeder they let loose in a hurry. Usually launching themselves into orbit as well.

Since then, the squirrels just pick up the left overs and spilled seed under the feeder on the ground so that gave me a good point of ambush for the tomato eating varmints out of my kitchen or bathroom windows.

I live inside the city limits, so at first I thought I might just try some .22 shorts as I was shooting into the ground and it would be fairly safe. Well, the shorts were supersonic and loud and I could not find any subsonic rounds of any kind locally. My daughter had been on the high schools Jr. ROTC shooting team and they used the compressed airguns so I though about one of those, but they were very pricey. I bought a springer pellet rifle instead. It chronographs just under supersonic so it is quiet and the squirrel problem was reduced that year.

Unfortunately, the squirrels move around the neighborhood and they are replaced about as fast as I can kill them. I killed 24 the first year, about 18 the second year, and then 20+ the third year. I finally gave up and waited to see if they were still going to eat my tomatoes. Well so far I have been okay and they are leaving them alone. I must have killed all the squirrels with the mutant genetics that had a taste for tomatoes. At least I hope so.

But I still have the Gamo Hunter 220 with wooden stock topped with a decent variable scope with adjustable parallax ready to put a stop to the varmints if they start getting back in my little garden.

Edited by Ham Gunner on May 07 2018 at 10:04am


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 07 2018 at 3:04pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

There are some really nice "gas spring" guns. Hatsan makes one that gives an honest 900 fps with 14.3 gr, lead pellets. It comes with a scope and is under the $200,00 mark.

The Beeman QB Chief, is probably the best bargain if some one wants to try out a PCP gun. The are on sale at Amazon for $163.00. The specs say the gun is good for 50 shots between fills.

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Pete D.
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Posted: May 07 2018 at 4:41pm | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Quote:
he .45-50 cal PCP air guns just seemed like too much work for
not much return.

I wonder. I have to pump them both up to the same pressure. I get the
same number oif good shots. True the velocity difference is often
substantial. Then again so are the pellet weights. I can shoot a14-28
grain pellet at 900fps in a .22 or I can shoot a 143 grain .457 lead ball
at 700 FPS or a 200 grain LSWC at 600 fps. That’s a difference that is
worth it to me.


Edited by Pete D. on May 07 2018 at 6:35pm


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M700
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Posted: May 08 2018 at 2:43am | IP Logged Quote M700

Ham - know a fellow who built a screen "box" around his tomato bushes. Was even screened on top. He tried shooting the squirrels with an air gun, but found that the box protected the tomatoes much better.

Had a hinged side so he could open it to pull weeds or harvest the tomatoes, then just close it back up. I thought it was pretty slick.

Guy

Edited by M700 on May 08 2018 at 2:44am
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Pete D.
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Posted: May 08 2018 at 3:00am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

About that 250 yard shot.
Approximate ballistics.....Quackenbush has chrono’d his .308 rifle and
120 grain bullets at 900 fps. Allowing 1000fps, a 120 grain lead bullet
has a BC of .175. At 250 yards it is just under 800 fps with 169 ft.lbs of
energy.
Enough for an elk? Yes with a properly placed shot.
Ross Seyfried once stalked and took an elk with a single shot rifle
chambered for the .455 Webley. The Webley has a ME of 220 ft.lbs.
It was a stunt but he was a good shot and it worked.
Elmer Keith’s famous 600 yard Mule deer shot with his .44 was also a
stunt
but it worked. Residual energy for his .44 slug at 600 yards was about
240 ft.lbs.
The air rifle is even more of a stunt but with well placed shot...


Edited by Pete D. on May 08 2018 at 11:56am


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 08 2018 at 5:40am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Keith shot a mule deer not an elk.. The problem with stunts it that they do not always work, just ask Evil Kenevll..!

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Pete D.
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Posted: May 08 2018 at 11:56am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Mule deer. Thanks. Fixed it.
Very true about stunts. To that end, I thought that it was worth posting
the ballistics.
There are videos of fellows taking boar with .177 pellets.
I shot my last boar with a .30-06 at 75 yards and it ran 100 yards before
piling up.

Edited by Pete D. on May 08 2018 at 12:04pm


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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 08 2018 at 3:39pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

There are some videos of chaps with .177 spring guns killing wild pigs. That does not seem like a good idea.

Here is one with a .22 Gamo spring gun. It can be done..!

Air Gun Pig

Edited by John Van Gelder on May 08 2018 at 3:40pm
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M700
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Posted: May 08 2018 at 6:02pm | IP Logged Quote M700

Pete D. wrote:
Mule deer. Thanks. Fixed it.
Very true about stunts. To that end, I thought that it was worth posting
the ballistics.
There are videos of fellows taking boar with .177 pellets.
I shot my last boar with a .30-06 at 75 yards and it ran 100 yards before
piling up.


So if you were hunting wild boar tomorrow morning, which rifle would you grab? The .177 air rifle, or the 30-06 rifle?

I know for sure I'd take the 30-06 rifle. No hesitation at all.

That hundred hard run smacks of either poor shot placement, which happens while hunting. Not all is perfect in the hunting fields. Or the wrong bullet. Or both. The 30-06 itself is clearly capable of taking any game in North America.

Now the .177 air rifle? No... I'm not grabbing one of those for ANY big game hunt.

Regards, Guy
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Pete D.
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Posted: May 09 2018 at 4:15am | IP Logged Quote Pete D.

Quote:
hat hundred hard run smacks of either poor shot placement,
which happens while hunting. Not all is perfect in the hunting fields. Or
the wrong bullet

Of course, you are correct. (I knew that when I wrote that someone
would pick up on that). It was not pretty. The shot was taken about
seven seconds before dark at a dark animal. Not my best moment.

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