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richhodg66
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Posted: May 10 2018 at 5:21pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I'm not the smartest guy in the room anywhere I go, but I like to feel I can think and figure stuff out. At the very least, I hope I can shut up if I don't know jack about the subject matter or ask reasonably intelligent questions.

I'm on a couple of gun related facebook pages and holy crap there are some dumb gun enthusiast out there. Not ignorant, dumb. Case in point, a young guy asks a question, valid question. He has a .30-30 lever gun and asks if there is a reason he can't use the 150 grain FMJs he uses in his .308 for plinking in his .30-30 IF he single loads them. First guy answers and tells him correctly that he absolutely can since the bore size is the same and rate of twist will work.

This is followed by about 127 ranting idiot replies from self proclaimed experts that is you get a pointed bullet anywhere near a lever gun it'll blow up every lever action rifle made since John Browning was born, render all your male offspring sterile, cause the zombie apocalypse to start, etc. All this because they heard pointed bullets bad in levers, but can't even read a question and think.

Just today, someone asks why nobody chambers a lever gun in 9mm. Suddnly, 10,000 "experts" say it's because levers won't feed rimless cartridges. Hmmm, .35 Remington??? Then "well, the ,35 Remington has a shoulder to headspace on and the 9mm doesn't". Hmmmm. How does the 9mm headspace in a pistol then?

The really sad thing is that this thread went on forever and the same comments kept coming up which tells me, not only are they ignorant, they're too lazy and stupid to read the damn thread.

I'm the last guy to judge who should own something or not, but someone that dumb shouldn't have the responsibility of operating his own spoon, let alone a rifle.

The ability to read and think is being lost in America. Sorry for the rant.

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Rex
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Posted: May 10 2018 at 7:50pm | IP Logged Quote Rex

Amen! I've noticed the same thing.
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doghawg
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Posted: May 10 2018 at 8:49pm | IP Logged Quote doghawg

I know what you're saying Rich but no subject brought up could possibly match a good ol'
bear protection thread and the most passion filled
and dramatic posts are by eggspurts that have never seen a bear in the woods.

Randy

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RT58
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Posted: May 11 2018 at 7:55am | IP Logged Quote RT58

I wish I'd written down some of the comments I've heard over the years, it'd be a best seller.
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M700
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Posted: May 11 2018 at 8:35am | IP Logged Quote M700

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Old Ranger
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Posted: May 11 2018 at 8:47am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Seriously, not many people actually read the introduction
post in a thread. Often the response given by many are
indeed based upon the prior post after the first, and
often has little to do with the initial post at all. Most
are "knee-jerk reactions" that will be a display how
little they comprehend and how shallow their intellect
truly is.

And Rich is so correct about the snowball effect. One
self proclaimed genius spews out some drivel that is
based upon hearsay void of all facts and study and the
ignorant minions chime in like little magpies.
Astonishing.

Sadly, most posts degrade quickly with volumes of self
introduced comments of the respondent's gear having
nothing to do with the original post and the topic of it.
The words "I" and "my/mine" take hold and the entire
thread is diverted to a completely different subject all
together.

The ridiculous and idiotic response are from genuine
mental midgets, and they float about us in cyberspace and
our society. Remember, you can't fix stupid. Those of us
here, on this site, are in a vessel of intelligent
individuals displaying common sense who are adrift in a
sea of morons.

I am not politically correct and thus will not sugar coat
my comments. Any trolling visitors that are easily
offended can walk away.

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turbo1889
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Posted: May 12 2018 at 4:03am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

Yup, It's a jungle out there. Although
let's not forget to keep an eye on that
turkey each of us notices in a mirror once
in a while. I know that despite my own
best intentions I've taken a thread off
the deep end a few times. Right now I'm
doing my best to keep the turkey in the
mirror from commenting on the 9mm lever
gun idea mentioned and streering this
thread off. May start a thread about that
in the proper section.

Just on the specific topic under
discussion, I just want to say that being
totally dumb/stupid and lacking cohesive
mental capabilities in general is a
serious failing and I have had some bad
run-ins not just on the net but in person.
But at the same time we need to forgive
our brothers the occasional transgression
into dumb/stupid land so long as it isn't
a habitual thing. Otherwise we would all
be beyond hope, I know I've haven't always
kept my turkey in the mirror under control
as well as I should. But I try, and for
the most part succeed. I don't think we
can ask much more then that from each
other.

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richhodg66
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Posted: May 12 2018 at 7:45am | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I agree, and I am becoming more tolerant lately. No problem with someone being ignorant, but an inability or refusal to read and reason is just maddening. You don't have to be well educated to be a good thinker.

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KinleyWater
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Posted: May 12 2018 at 4:56pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Never underestimate the need for people to feel important. Add that to the soap box that is the internet and...

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Bohica793
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Posted: May 13 2018 at 6:30am | IP Logged Quote Bohica793

God obviously loves idiots as He makes so many of them.

Edited by Bohica793 on May 13 2018 at 6:30am


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Old Ranger
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Posted: May 13 2018 at 6:55am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Rich, as I've aged I am far less tolerant of people and
their actions. Trying to talk sense to a person who has
none is exasperating to say the least. As I have always
said, "I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an
unarmed person."

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RT58
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Posted: May 13 2018 at 6:55am | IP Logged Quote RT58

richhodg66 wrote:
... not only are they ignorant, they're too lazy and stupid to read the damn thread.



And then there's this angle too. Many of the questions are asked because the poster is too lazy to read a book, any book. They'd rather scan over a hundred posts, looking for the shortest ones trying to find the one that tells them how to do something the easiest and cheapest way possible.

I used to reply with long, informative posts until I realized people weren't interested in learning how to do something right, they only wanted to do it easier. Even if the information came from a troll that knew nothing about the subject and googled it from another troll.

I was on a forum one day where there were five separate posts asking "which reloading manual should I buy", all visible at the same time and pretty much worded exactly the same. I'm sure it didn't matter which manual they bought as they wouldn't read it either.

Edited by RT58 on May 13 2018 at 7:00am
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Tom W.
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Posted: May 15 2018 at 11:11am | IP Logged Quote Tom W.

Let me ask... Has anyone seen a lever action rifle blow up from loading RN cast bullets into the tubular magazine? I've heard and read and listened to people sat that it happens but never saw where it did... Of course MY 30/30 is a single shot.....

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Paul B.
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Posted: May 15 2018 at 11:26am | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

Tom W. wrote:
Let me ask... Has anyone seen a lever action rifle
blow up from loading RN cast bullets into the tubular magazine? I've
heard and read and listened to people sat that it happens but never
saw where it did... Of course MY 30/30 is a single shot.....


Let's keep this simple. My cast bullet loads for the 30-30 are with the
Lyman #311291, a round nose cast bullets. I've probably load at least a
thousand or more and shot them in 64 and 94 Winchesters and a
couple of Marlins as well. The ones used for hunting are are plain air
cooled gas checked wheel weights. Target load could be air cooled or
water dropped, whatever was handy. None of the tube magazine rifles
ever blew up in the magazine. I've heard that even with spitzer bullet
it's quite rare but does happen. I only shoot cast in my 30-30's whether
for target or deer.
Paul B.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: May 15 2018 at 1:26pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Tom W. wrote:
Let me ask... Has anyone seen a lever action rifle blow up from loading RN cast bullets into the tubular magazine? I've heard and read and listened to people sat that it happens but never saw where it did... Of course MY 30/30 is a single shot.....


I read on another forum that 100+ people were killed last month alone doing just that! It's also illegal under the NFA, and known to cause cancer in the State of California .

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richhodg66
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Posted: May 15 2018 at 3:34pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I've loaded round nose in lever guns without a problem. I've always smelled BS about the tube magazine detonation thing, but figured why risk it? The fact is that the .30-30 doesn't generate enough velocity to benefit from spritzers much and even if it did, most of the guns it's chambered in don't have the accuracy levels to make use of it. Best to leave the .30-30 and similar as they are designed.

The whole "levers would be impossible to chamber in 9mm because it's rimless" got to me worse. Like there's some kind of voo doo about how guns work. Or how a case can't head space with a shoulder. In the Army we used to describe some Soldiers as "spring loaded in the dumb position", seems there are a lot of them outside the Army.

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Tom W.
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Posted: May 15 2018 at 3:41pm | IP Logged Quote Tom W.

As I thought.... "I've heard"...

Me too. Now I gotta find a mouse fart load for my 30/30 with a 160 - 170 grain cast bullet...

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turbo1889
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Posted: May 15 2018 at 10:29pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

"Taofledermaus" on youtube has a video
shot with an extremely high speed camera
demonstrating a simulated chain explosion
inside a clear tube.

Standard 5.56 ball ammo was used. So,
obviously it can happen and it can be done
deliberately as a demonstration.

Which although it doesn't answer any
questions about a 9mm lever gun; I think
it does answer the question why no one is
building a 223/5.56 gun with a tube
magazine.

Please do note that in the immediately
above statement, as a sign of intelligence
I made a double settle clarification
there. First I clarified the tube
magazine as the potential issue not the
lever action system, there have been box
magazine fed lever guns, my personal
favorite being those chambered for
7.62x54R which certainly is a pointy
bullet cartridge. And secondly I pointed
out the falty logic of the original
supposition that it's the lever action
system itself that maybe incompatible with
the 9x19 cartridge. IF there is
any kind of compatibility issue it's with
the tube magazine not the action system.
Just as not all lever guns are tube
magazine guns, not all tube magazine guns
are lever guns, some are pumps, some are
semi-autos, and some bolt action guns too!

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What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
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KinleyWater
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Posted: May 16 2018 at 4:03am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Tom,

Not in keeping with the original post, but try 7-10 grains of Unique with a 170 cast. My Lyman manual says 10.3 max.

Also, I don't have a manual for it, but I understand you can load with Trail Boss.

XXX

As for 9mm in a lever gun, I would suspect for the same reason no one makes a lever gun in .380 ACP or .40 S&W - A complete lack of interest.

On the other hand, it's entirely possible that manufacturers have learned that if you try, a portal will open to another universe and everyone on Earth will suddenly turn inside out.

As my bother puts it, gun forums are a good place to get bad advice. (not this one, of course )

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Bohica793
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Posted: May 16 2018 at 4:38am | IP Logged Quote Bohica793

KinleyWater wrote:
...and known to cause cancer in the
State of California .


Tell me something that is NOT know to cause cancer in
the state of California.

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