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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 21 2018 at 2:37pm | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I have always felt that there was more to the story about Elmer blowing the loading gate off of a SAA. The story he related is that he was using a 300 grn Belding Mull (not sure of the spelling) bullet with all of the BP that would fit in the case.

I do not think that another 45 gr. of bullet, would have made that much pressure difference, the bigger bullet would have left less room for powder.

A couple of things could have happened, he was probably using balloon head cases. BP residue will corrode cases if they sit around and pick up moisture from the air.

My thought has always been that during the loading process one case did not get completely filled and was missed. An air space in black powder loads can cause a case to fail.

Just a guess.
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REM1875
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Posted: May 21 2018 at 7:03pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

John Van Gelder wrote:
I have always felt that there
was more to the story about Elmer blowing the loading
gate off of a SAA. The story he related is that he was
using a 300 grn Belding Mull (not sure of the spelling)
bullet with all of the BP that would fit in the case.

I do not think that another 45 gr. of bullet, would have
made that much pressure difference, the bigger bullet
would have left less room for powder.

A couple of things could have happened, he was probably
using balloon head cases. BP residue will corrode cases
if they sit around and pick up moisture from the air.

My thought has always been that during the loading
process one case did not get completely filled and was
missed. An air space in black powder loads can cause a
case to fail.

Just a guess.




F-F-F-F (4F) black powder used in flash pans on
flintlocks is listed as a powder used in some 45 Colt
(LC) loads .........

and let me tell ya it makes a difference .......

Edited by REM1875 on May 21 2018 at 7:06pm
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turbo1889
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 12:23am | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

4F in a 45-cal !!! Holy @$#!?)* !!!

3F is more like it !!! Unless you have a
very short barreled derringer or pocket
pistol and even then it's a lighter charge
with a shorter case and/or a deep seated
bullet !!!

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REM1875
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 1:18am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

The Old Ruger Blackhawk and Ruger Old Army will handle it
.....it does cause gas cutting ..... (if i recall correctly
it listed in the Lyman Black Powder book)

What we are talking about is how kieth blew loading gates
off revolvers with BP and bullets just 45 grains heavier
than normal...
and I suspect this is a cause (with balloon head cases I
bet)......

Edited by REM1875 on May 22 2018 at 1:43am
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 5:09am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Cartridge blackpowder is 2.5F, bought a whole case of Goex in that granulation, it was what was available.
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REM1875
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 5:25am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

John Van Gelder wrote:
Cartridge blackpowder is 2.5F,
bought a whole case of Goex in that granulation, it was
what was available.


John considering the number of 45 LC successfully fired
with that and 255 gr bullets I suspect Mr (hot rod) Kieth
used something different .....just a WAG........
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 10:21am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

I have always felt that there was more to that story..

Back to .44s. You can do a lot with the .44, if you have a magnum, then for just casual shooting drop in some .44 spl., the standard special loading is very pleasant out of the big frame guns, and is great for introducing young folks to the realm of big bore hand gun shooting.

Not to mention that the milder loads are more fun for us old guys. A load that I enjoy in my Ruger .44 spl. uses the Lee 200 grn. RNFP bullet over 4 grains of 700X.   

A mild load, that has good accuracy out to 100 yards.

I remember several years ago Remington offered a "mid range" load for the .44 mag., a 240 grn. RNFP bullet at an advertised 1000 fps.

Edited by John Van Gelder on May 22 2018 at 10:32am
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John P.
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 10:33am | IP Logged Quote John P.

Interesting topic; my guess is also the balloon head cases. Seems to
be a reasonable explanation with the loading gate blowing off. Just
think, if it weren't for a couple of variables, we might have had the .45
Magnum or .454 Keith today.

Regardless, I really appreciate the .45 Colt. I have a Ruger Bisley that I
put mild to hot loads through. Favorite, is the 270-SAA over a healthy
dose of 2400. When LAH cast and sold bullets, I enjoyed his 300 gr.
SWC over H110.

I just picked up a Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP. So far only fired it with
.45 ACP, but I plan on working up a heavier cast bullet at around 1000
FPS for this new acquisition.

I am finding my .44 Magnums sitting in the safe, with me shooting and
experimenting with the .45 Colt more often.



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Paul B.
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 10:34am | IP Logged Quote Paul B.

IIRC, he also had a few cylinders come unglued as well. I'd have to look
it up but he was also using smokeless powders loads too. Du Pont #80
or some such as I recall.
I have most of his books.

Keith's Rifles for Large Game 1946
Big Game Rifles 1936
Sixgun Cartridges and loads 1936
Sixguns.
Hell I Was There
Keith, an Autobiography
Paul B.
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M700
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 12:24pm | IP Logged Quote M700

John Van Gelder wrote:
I have always felt that there was more to that story..

Back to .44s. You can do a lot with the .44, if you have a magnum, then for just casual shooting drop in some .44 spl., the standard special loading is very pleasant out of the big frame guns, and is great for introducing young folks to the realm of big bore hand gun shooting.

Not to mention that the milder loads are more fun for us old guys. A load that I enjoy in my Ruger .44 spl. uses the Lee 200 grn. RNFP bullet over 4 grains of 700X.   

A mild load, that has good accuracy out to 100 yards.

I remember several years ago Remington offered a "mid range" load for the .44 mag., a 240 grn. RNFP bullet at an advertised 1000 fps.


Ya, I handload the 44 magnum to two very different levels.

A 240/250 gr cast lead bullet at around 1,000 fps for practice and fun shooting. I suspect that with the flat nose lead, it would also be a useful round afield. I've been using Unique powder for this purpose for at least 30 years.

Then, max, or near max level loads with 240, 250, and heavier, up to 300 gr loads... Those danged things can be a real handful. But fun. I've used H110/W296, and also have been very happy with AA9 for these higher-power loads.

Guy
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REM1875
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 2:34pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

I like the 44 Spl for big bore introduction and target
shooting and let em work up to the 44 Mag at the end of the
session.....

Confidence building and making it fun not painful is a
better way to win more to our side ......

Kinda on the same page is I am very impressed with the 41
SPL in the 41 mag ....very impressed.....Starline sells the
brass ......

Edited by REM1875 on May 22 2018 at 2:38pm
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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 23 2018 at 6:29am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

If you do not reload, and that is a little silly or you would not be here..But if you do not then there are more options open for the .44 than the .45 Colt.

John Ps, Redhawk .45Colt/ACP, sounds like the answer. You can push a 250 grn bullet to 1100 fps, in the ACP and save the Colt cases for things above that.

There is load data in the old Speer manuals for for high velocity 250 grn bullet loads for the Auto Rim.

The beauty of the new Redhawk combo is that you use the same cylinder for both cartridges.
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Posted: May 23 2018 at 7:01pm | IP Logged Quote STCM(SW)

Speer #8 has a top load of 15 gr of 2400 with a MV of 1155 for the .45 AR with a 240 gr cast lead bullet.....

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 24 2018 at 6:25am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Chief

I have that load data, I could never get 15 grains into a .45ACP case, The web on the AR case must be different than the ACP case.

13 grains in an ACP case out of my Blackhawk with a 240 grain bullet got me into the upper 1100s.
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