Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc
Long Guns
 Handloads.Com Forum : Long Guns
Subject Topic: Mossberg Shockwave Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 388
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 12 2018 at 4:13pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Gents,

Just got back from a rather warm and humid but beautiful 92 degree day at the range. Pistols, rifles, and my new Mossberg Shockwaves. For those not aware, the Shockwave is a 14 inch barrel, NON-NFA "firearm", based on the Mossberg 590 series of shotguns. They are available in 12 and 20 gauges and in .410 bore. I recently purchased a pair (his and hers) in 12 gauge, his, and 20 gauge, hers.

I fired the 12 gauge version mostly and did not put that many rounds through it, but I thought I would give a report of what i have found if any of you are considering one. I will speak mostly about the 12 gauge variant, with reference to the 20 as I feel needed.

Recoil. Why not start with probably everyone's first question. Well, I have no idea how other people feel recoil, but I found it tolerable shooting 2 3/4 inch slugs, which I figured would have the most recoil out of the rounds I fired. To me, the recoil was on par with a stiff 44 Magnum load, which I don't mind all that much. I believe that the shape of the firing hand grip (not a pistol, after all) helped to shape how the recoil is received. Also, having a firm grip on the pump handle helps to manage the recoil as well. The 20 gauge recoil was very mild, though I only shot 2 3/4 inch Win #3 buck though it. Still, I would not hesitate handing it over to the wife for her to use.

Accuracy. This is a challenging subject. I found that slugs went more or less where I wanted. In general, both versions seemed to need to be aimed low. This was my experience shooting buck from an SBS and only seemed a surprise with the slugs. I suspect that the very shape of the rear grip with helped so much with recoil, led to the shoot high trend. There was an outlier to this with the 12 gauge, which I will address toward the end.

Effectiveness. Well, it's, um, a 12 gauge (or a 20). It may be shorter than what you have in the closet, but for across the room or down the hall, I doubt seriously you will find yourself under-powered. That said, it can take some getting used to getting a feel for how to put rounds on target. It seemed to me to be less intuitive than a shoulder mounted weapon. It will take some range time to figure out the best way to hold and shoot, but range time is never a bad thing. Shot pattern with 2 3/4 inch PMC #4 buck was approximately 7 inches at 10 yards. That is about what I would expect from a cylinder bore. I would expect that any cylinder bore shotgun wold be a good analog to understanding how this firearm will function.

Why? Well, some people might consider this an inexpensive alternative to an SBS with a stamp. I am not certain that this would be a correct way of looking at the Shockwave. As I said above, it is not as intuitive to shoot (for me) as a shoulder mounted shotgun. Still, at just a bit over 26 inches OAL, I would have no problem using it inside the home or even carried in a vehicle passenger compartment.

Wants and Needs. I would HIGHLY recommend two accessories. First is a light. The second is a red-dot type optic. There is not much real estate on the magazine tube to affix a light, but I will make it work. The top of the receiver is drilled and tapped as any 590 receiver and will take a rail for an optic. If you want more bang, a side saddle carrier can easily be attached.

Cost. MSRP for the two I got is in the $450 range. Is is worth it? Well, For less, you could get a conventional shotgun, which will be easier to use. I suppose if, like me, you want something very compact for around the house and in the car, then it's worth it.

Final Thoughts. The 20 Gauge is better. It's lighter, had less recoil, and didn't generate anywhere near as much barrel heat as the 12 gauge variant. The 12 has the advantage in the ammo variety and availability department, and an edge in raw power potential, but for my needs, the 20 will put rounds on target faster and for longer without burning my fingers. I don;t mind the 12 and I'm not going to sell it, but if I had to do it all over again, I would have bought two 20s.

I mentioned above that there was an exception to the ammunition and point of aim. That exception was the 2 3/4 inch Herters Multi-Defense. Those rounds are a buck and ball setup with a round lead ball and a stack of (I think) 000 buck. I found that even at ranges of 10 yards, the patterns were erratic and wide; to include the round ball. I do not know what the cause of this was, and for that reason i mention it separately. Unless someone tells me why (I won't spend the money to experiment) I will not use those rounds again and cannot recommend them for life or death use.

Ultimately, I wanted a short, easy to maneuver weapon for inside the house and car. This fits the bill for my needs and I do not regret the purchase. It is not a cure-all, but fills a need.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 494
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 13 2018 at 6:36am | IP Logged Quote RT58

I never heard of them, (I quit reading gun rags a long time ago.), so I did a search...

The first thing I found was that they are illegal in Ohio. Of course that is a maybe, I haven't kept up with all the GCA/NFA laws for several years since I haven't been in the market.

The next thing was that if you carry it concealed it can change the classification under the GCA/NFA regulations. But that only affects law-abiding citizens, or in this case criminals after they've been arrested.

...And I'm not impressed with the grip.
Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3592
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 14 2018 at 5:20am | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Seen 'em at the LGS. The owner says one in 12ga ain't bad
to shoot. Said even 00Buck ain't bad. Thinking about the
Maverick 88 I've got, before the Limbsaver recoil pad, it
was harsh with just 7 1/2 field loads. To imagine
shooting a "chopped & channeled" stubby 12ga? Forget it!
Call me a whimp if you want, but I'm not buying it.
Personally I can't see the practically of a super cut
down shotgun beyond use in a liquor store robbery.

Just my opinion here. I do believe everyone on the side
of law & order deserves the right to buy any weapon they
choose.
Bet they ain't legal in the communist country of
California! Jerry Brown would have kittens if he saw one
in one of the few remaining gunshops in "Jerry's World"!


__________________
"You can't have no idea how little I care."

Monte Walsh
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 388
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 14 2018 at 6:36am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Hi Wade!

Nice of you to stop by.

I've come to realize that recoil is shooter to shooter. You don't want to try the 12 gauge, and that's fine. I was worried as well, but for some reason i didn't find it all that bad. There is also the 20 gauge, which I thought had very easy to manage recoil.

Uses? Well, like I said, I wanted something I could keep tight to the body in the house and dismount easily from a vehicle. Not really something likely to happen, but I want it. I'll also keep it in mind if I ever decide knock over a liquor store.

I suppose if it's unlawful in Ohio, California is a no-go too.

RT - I'm not really worried about concealing it. Not up for shoving 26inches of firearm down my pants.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 494
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 14 2018 at 7:41am | IP Logged Quote RT58

I've shot shotguns with barrels as short as 12", they aren't as bad as one might think because the velocities drop of quite a bit due to the burning rates of the powders. One thing that does make a lot of difference here though is the design of the pistol grip being used. From what I've read it looks like the grip they're using is more about getting the OAL over 26" more than comfort.

Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4253
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 14 2018 at 3:09pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

I think I'm going to stick to full stocked shotguns, if the situation is so desperate as to warrant one, it's to desperate to afford a miss. An 18" barreled pump is awfully short and handy and a double coach gun even more so. I want it at eye level.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
REM1875
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 13 2010
Location: Buffalo Springs, Clay County, TX
Posts: 480
Online Status: Online
Posted: May 14 2018 at 11:46pm | IP Logged Quote REM1875

KinleyWater
Excellent report ........I admit I was curious about
them but not necessarily in a rush to get one ....
Good Job

Since parts of this county are still dry we have a
shortage of local liquor stores .......wonder if it
would work in a feed store robbery ???

Edited by REM1875 on May 14 2018 at 11:49pm
Back to Top View REM1875's Profile Search for other posts by REM1875
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 388
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 15 2018 at 1:34pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Rich:
It certainly isn't for everyone and as I said, it has a learning curve, so I understand wanting a full stock.

REM:
Thanks! I find gun rag write-ups typically unhelpful, so I thought I would pass along my observations. Thing is, this is such an expensive hobby, that we need to help each other out by passing the most honest info we can. Leave the gun rags to make money from advertisers.

Feed stores? Well, I supposeso, but only for drunk horses, I think .

ALL-

Also just to clarify something. The 12 gauge got very hot, very quickly (6 or 7 rounds). The 20 stayed touchable cool for much longer (10 rounds). That is what I was referencing above regarding heat. I do not have an explanation for this, except, perhaps that the 12 was shooting Remington (If I recall) slugs and the 20 Win #3 buck.

Edited by KinleyWater on May 15 2018 at 1:37pm


__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 494
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 9:25am | IP Logged Quote RT58

I'm not completely against the idea. Short, powerful weapons have their place in lot more situations than robbing liquor stores.

The only thing I have against it is the grip, and hopefully if it gains in popularity there will be better options. And as you said, you will learn how to use the one on it as you practice with it. Also, it is possible to shoot a pistol gripped shotgun at eye level.

The five shot magazine with a 14" barrel is a big plus, the 12" 870 has a magazine capacity of two rounds.

If it weren't for the "Ohio" thing I'd like to try one. For those unfortunate enough to live in Ohio, and other "progressive" states, an 870 with a 20" barrel and a Remington folding stock on it has an OAL of about 29 3/4". An 18" barrel would bring it down to approximately 27 3/4". The only down side to this is the top folding stock blocks the sights/bead when folded.

Edited by RT58 on May 16 2018 at 9:31am
Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
mikld
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: January 30 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 10:58am | IP Logged Quote mikld

A "need" for a short bbl shotgun? No less than
"needing" a 400 hp sports car or even a 500 Magnum
handgun. I've read a report or two and KinleyWater's
report mirrors what I've read. Heavy recoil, fun
shooting, very good for short range SD work. As noted,
it will take a bit of getting used to, but how many of
us had to "get used to" shooting a specific firearm? It
took me a bit of time to get used to shooting my first
44 Magnum with heavy loads.

I don't know about state laws but according to the ATF,
they are legal handguns and not considered a short
barreled shotgun (when I bought a Contender
action/frame only, I had to specify the caliber, even
if it came without a barrel. But that was CA and I
still had to wait 10 days).

My local gun dealers subscribe to the "no need for"
line of thought and don't sell these "assault type"
weapons, so I haven't seen one in person yet...

__________________
My Anchor holds
Back to Top View mikld's Profile Search for other posts by mikld
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3592
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 3:16pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

Sadly the "left coast" mentality is steadily growing.
Doubt that you're gonna see one in Oregon either. Hear
it's becoming a northern province of California.
Washington is next as soon as Oregon is totally pacified.


__________________
"You can't have no idea how little I care."

Monte Walsh
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 388
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 3:33pm | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

mikld:
My understanding is that the ATF classifies them as a "firearm" not a handgun. It may be a bit of a nitpick, but it's the margins of the definitions that make this device possible. I am not an attorney, but that's my understanding.

Sorry to hear about your LGS. I live, um, on the other side of the country more or less, but if you make it out this way, I'll let you shoot mine.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
RT58
Senior Member




Joined: August 04 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 494
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 5:17pm | IP Logged Quote RT58

mikld wrote:
A "need" for a short bbl shotgun? No less than
"needing" a 400 hp sports car or even a 500 Magnum
handgun.


Yup, most people buy stuff because they want it more than need it. But if you've ever been in a situation where you needed something and didn't have it, it's usually too late to run out and find it. It happens a lot more than many people realize. I remember a thread not too long ago where several posters said they didn't care for the AR-15 but had one "just in case". Just-in-case situations aren't always the same and an AR-15 won't always be the best solution. The wife used to watch a "prepper" show on TV where the preppers would be all geared up for whatever disaster they assumed would happen, but would be completely un-prepared for anything else.

You are right Kinley, the Shockwave is "legal" due to the way it is classified. It is not a short barreled shotgun and is not an "AOW" device, and is legal to own, in most areas, without a tax stamp. Putting a regular shoulder stock or a shorter pistol grip on it will change it's classification.   
Back to Top View RT58's Profile Search for other posts by RT58
 
richhodg66
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: December 13 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4253
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 8:10pm | IP Logged Quote richhodg66

Well, I'm not into the black rifle thing, don't and won't own one, but if a gun shop had a policy against them, I'd not frequent that gun shop. That's exactly the kind of leap down the slippery slope that's gonna get us all disarmed completely.

__________________
"The secret to happiness is freedom, and the secret to freedom is courage."
Back to Top View richhodg66's Profile Search for other posts by richhodg66
 
turbo1889
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 08 2006
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
Posts: 1553
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 16 2018 at 9:29pm | IP Logged Quote turbo1889

I imagine they might be just the thing for
a charging bear, blast and pump, repeat
until empty. Load it up with the Brenneke
short mag slug loads and heavy 00-buck
loads alternating. Still light enough and
short enough to carry in a safari type
sling hanging across your front for having
immediately available for action.

__________________
What part of, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be INFRINGED" don't you understand ?!?!?

To the most serious charge of "ARMING WOMEN" I plead guilty on multiple counts.
Back to Top View turbo1889's Profile Search for other posts by turbo1889
 
REM1875
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: November 13 2010
Location: Buffalo Springs, Clay County, TX
Posts: 480
Online Status: Online
Posted: May 17 2018 at 1:19am | IP Logged Quote REM1875

richhodg66 wrote:
Well, I'm not into the black rifle
thing, don't and won't own one, but if a gun shop had a
policy against them, I'd not frequent that gun shop.
That's exactly the kind of leap down the slippery slope
that's gonna get us all disarmed completely.


Excellent point .....
If i ain't crazy about a gun I don't buy it ... I sure
as hell ain't gonna stop you from buying it ......
Back to Top View REM1875's Profile Search for other posts by REM1875
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 388
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 17 2018 at 8:21am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

richhodg66 wrote:
Well, I'm not into the black rifle thing, don't and won't own one, but if a gun shop had a policy against them, I'd not frequent that gun shop. That's exactly the kind of leap down the slippery slope that's gonna get us all disarmed completely.


Well, you can always paint it a color you do like...

In all seriousness, you make an excellent point.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
mikld
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: January 30 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 107
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 17 2018 at 9:37am | IP Logged Quote mikld

Perhaps the popularity of "assault rifles", evil "black
rifles" is harmful to the shooting community, but we
forget nearly every firearm used today was at one time
a military weapon (even bows and arrows!). More
detrimental than the guns themselves is the "GI
Joe/Seal Team 6" attitude we see so much of. How many
pics of an AR user are with the shooter wearing his
normal shooting/hunting clothing? Or are the pics
showing a person wearing his "tactical" outfit, with
his tactical shooting glasses (sometimes a scarf hiding
his face), decked out in vests, helmets, 17 different
attachments to his molle pack and a thigh length
holster on one leg and 6 magazines on the other?

__________________
My Anchor holds
Back to Top View mikld's Profile Search for other posts by mikld
 
KinleyWater
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: August 12 2016
Posts: 388
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 17 2018 at 10:33am | IP Logged Quote KinleyWater

Designed in 1956, and first commercially available in 1964,the AR-15 is a 54 year platform, based on 62 year old design. In my youth, I saw such things for sale, but never saw even a single advertisement for the AR as a "tactical" platform.

It seems then, that there is a sociological dissonance with more recent generations. It is characterized both with the way such things are advertised and the self identification of owners. Perhaps I am being overly broad with my characterizations, but it's almost as if a large number of people these days have a need to feel special. In keeping with mikld's observations about image and AR-15s.

__________________
List of guns/ calibers I own.
Pithy quote.
Back to Top View KinleyWater's Profile Search for other posts by KinleyWater
 
Old Ranger
Senior Member


Avatar

Joined: April 11 2010
Location: East Texas
Posts: 3592
Online Status: Offline
Posted: May 17 2018 at 2:22pm | IP Logged Quote Old Ranger

KinleyWater wrote:
Perhaps I am being overly broad
with my characterizations, but it's almost as if a large
number of people these days have a need to feel special.
In keeping with mikld's observations about image and AR-
15s.


That is it precisely! All these little goofy wannabes
running around wearing an exorbitant amount of tactical
junk thinking there somebody special. Yeah they're
special alright, special morons!

__________________
"You can't have no idea how little I care."

Monte Walsh
Back to Top View Old Ranger's Profile Search for other posts by Old Ranger
 

Home | Load data | Articles | Ballistic Calc | Energy Calc

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You can vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version
Copyright ©2001-2008 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.1250 seconds.