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BunnyKiller
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Posted: May 17 2018 at 8:21am | IP Logged Quote BunnyKiller

hey yall...

I never really questioned the FPS rating on bullets ( bulk in the box etc) but I got to wondering what would happen if one was to load a bullet rated at ( for example/theory) 1500 fps into a situation that would push it into the 2100 fps range? Does the excessive velocity deform the bullet while in the barrel and cause issues or what??
What made me wonder is Im using Hornady FTX .452 225 gr ( rated to 2100fps) and Hornady XTP .452 250 gr ( rated to 1500fps) for reloading my 460 mag.
Even tho the XTP is a hollow point and the FTX is ballistic tipped, is there a difference in lead "firmness" that allows for the 600fps difference? Or is the limit rating for best performance and nothing to do with mechanical stress etc?

Sometimes I think too much ;)
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mikld
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Posted: May 17 2018 at 9:13am | IP Logged Quote mikld

Normally, it's the effect on target that determines the
bullet speed. A bullet designed for 30-30 velocities will
blow up, expand too rapidly, when it hits the target,
game, at 30-06 or 308 velocities...

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doghawg
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Posted: May 17 2018 at 8:06pm | IP Logged Quote doghawg

BunnyKiller

I load for a .454 and remember Freedom Arms warning against full house loads using .452" bullets designed for the .45 Colt. I don't remember the exact wording but what it amounted to was the lightly constructed jackets would expand and elevate pressure. Apparently a 50,000 lb. bump in the backside was more than the 250 XTP could handle. In the newer Hornady manuals they only list loads for the 240 gr. and 300 gr. magnum rated bullets.

Randy

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BunnyKiller
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Posted: May 18 2018 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote BunnyKiller

ahhh okay.. so there is a reason and it does seem to be a mechanical one.... at this time in my life only thing Im shooting is paper...
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Tom W.
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Posted: May 18 2018 at 11:24am | IP Logged Quote Tom W.

It makes me wonder, I know cast bullets will shoot accurately up to a certain speed from a rifle, but then they start to make patterns rather than groups. When I had my .454 all I ever shot was cast, as well as the rest of my handguns, and they shot very well. Sooo.... would this be a jacketed phenomenon?

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doghawg
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Posted: May 18 2018 at 6:02pm | IP Logged Quote doghawg

Tom

I'm risking telling you more than I know here but...I'm wondering if a hardcast gas check bullet isn't a bit more sturdy than a thin jacketed with a soft lead core? I have run some pretty warm loads with revolvers using gas check cast bullets with no issues.

Randy

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 19 2018 at 5:30am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

Jacketed bullets are designed to expand at a certain range of velocities. An example .223/4 jacketed bullets designed for the .22 Hornet, will not work well in the .22-250.

The .30-30 bullets in the .30-06 is also a good example. The same applies for expanding bullets in standard pressure handgun loads used in magnums.

The difference is in the thickness of the jacket and bonding of the core material.

Cast bullets is a slightly different story, alloys have to be tailor made to the application. Too hard is as bad as too soft.

The Sierra manual has a pretty comprehensive explanation of the differences. I have an older manual and it even has pictures of bullets recovered from game animals and the ranges and velocities involved.
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RT58
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Posted: May 20 2018 at 7:22am | IP Logged Quote RT58

BunnyKiller wrote:
...what would happen if one was to load a bullet rated at ( for example/theory) 1500 fps into a situation that would push it into the 2100 fps range? Does the excessive velocity deform the bullet while in the barrel and cause issues or what??


Velocities are listed so the bullets will give the best terminal performance, this is only a guess since the the intended targets may not be the same density as their test medium.

As to your statement above, it's not really the velocity rating that you have to consider, it's the intended pressure limits. Yes, they are sort of related.

When bullets are fired the pressure behind it will deform the bullet, and in revolvers the bullet will mushroom at the base when entering the forcing cone. In most cases using a bullet intended for a "special" cartridge in the 20,000 psi approximate range and pushing it to 35,000 psi. in a magmum, doesn't create a problem.

Then we have the .45's...bullets intended for the .45 Colt's 14,000 psi are going to have soft alloy cores with and thin jackets to make sure they work at the low velocities. Taking these bullets and firing them in cartridges at 55,000+ psi makes a big difference. The base of the bullets are deformed excessively at the forcing cone and causes problems like pressure spikes, flame cutting of the top strap, quicker throat erosion and etc. The bullets being made for the .454 Casull and .460 magnum have thicker jackets and harder alloy cores intended for the higher pressures. The weaker bullets can be shot out of the howitzers, but they should be used in reduced loads with pressures in their intended ranges.
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BunnyKiller
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Posted: May 21 2018 at 7:46pm | IP Logged Quote BunnyKiller

ahhh   thank you RT...

that bit of info explains and answers all of the questions floating around in my head...
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rich2
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Posted: May 22 2018 at 3:21pm | IP Logged Quote rich2

Many years ago, I loaded some 125 gr. .357 bullets in my Maximum. They were traveling in excess of 2200 fps. The wife and I were just married at the time and renting a small house on a farm that was over run with woodchucks. I found out the load was devastating on them. The bullets meant for 1800 fps (+/-) exploded on impact on the critters. I can't remember the load so I won't attempt to publish it. But it shot great and showed no signs of pressure. Shooting them out of my Contender at the rodents 100 yds. or more was great fun and many good memories. Now, the woodchuck fields are gone or have been posted or are unsafe to shoot due to housing sprawl. Yes, I still have the Contender but I haven't shot it in over 20 years.

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John Van Gelder
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Posted: May 23 2018 at 6:20am | IP Logged Quote John Van Gelder

rich2

I had a similar experience loading .357 125s up to max .357 loadings and then shooting them out of a 10" Contender, I shot a pretty good sized Alaska Marmot, it just blew the marmot apart. I normally salvaged the marmots for the crock pot, a real acquired taste..this one there was nothing to salvage it was pretty much liquefied.
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RT58
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Posted: May 25 2018 at 6:41am | IP Logged Quote RT58

BunnyKiller wrote:
ahhh   thank you RT...

that bit of info explains and answers all of the questions floating around in my head...


You're welcome BunnyKiller.
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